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Post by sand20go on Feb 24, 2019 16:15:17 GMT
Having a bit of a challenge with that build and thinking that a second list (outside of Vlad2 AC) should be built to cover it (and POSSIBLY thorn). Juris has proffered B3 in LOS. That makes some sense. Ditto B3 in WG with a Fun Carriage.
I also am contemplating (yes, in madness that lies) S2 in WG - as that also allows you Widows who can be the designated Shatter storm group and, IN THEORY you could easily one round the SG if you put it in S2's feat bubble and shot the bleep out of it.
WHat are you doing?
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 24, 2019 19:08:26 GMT
Is this not another one for the Sorscha1 brigade? Infantry bricks are her jam, so you just need to be able to deal with the SG.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 24, 2019 19:12:36 GMT
Is this not another one for the Sorscha1 brigade? Infantry bricks are her jam, so you just need to be able to deal with the SG. While you can freeze things in the 12 inch bubble after the feat is gone the approach is to simply keep the SG where you can get to a model to Freezing grip and have souls ready to for Arcane Vortex. Indeed, it isn't a bad strategy to simply thresher a bunch of frozen immortals and then bring 2-3 back, now able to activate (if not attack) to get board space. I would be interested in hearing about how it has been going for the S1 builds. |
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 24, 2019 19:42:36 GMT
Is this not another one for the Sorscha1 brigade? Infantry bricks are her jam, so you just need to be able to deal with the SG. While you can freeze things in the 12 inch bubble after the feat is gone the approach is to simply keep the SG where you can get to a model to Freezing grip and have souls ready to for Arcane Vortex. Indeed, it isn't a bad strategy to simply thresher a bunch of frozen immortals and then bring 2-3 back, now able to activate (if not attack) to get board space. I would be interested in hearing about how it has been going for the S1 builds. Okay, I feel like I'm not parsing this correctly? It can only use Arcane Vortex if the specific Immortal you target is within 3". So you would have to get the entire unit within 3" to stop Freezing Grip. And if you have used Freezing Grip on a unit, the ones that come back are stationary too as it specifies that the unit is stationary for a round. (This doesn't apply to feat-frozen ones) |
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Post by sand20go on Feb 24, 2019 19:49:24 GMT
While you can freeze things in the 12 inch bubble after the feat is gone the approach is to simply keep the SG where you can get to a model to Freezing grip and have souls ready to for Arcane Vortex. Indeed, it isn't a bad strategy to simply thresher a bunch of frozen immortals and then bring 2-3 back, now able to activate (if not attack) to get board space. I would be interested in hearing about how it has been going for the S1 builds. Okay, I feel like I'm not parsing this correctly? It can only use Arcane Vortex if the specific Immortal you target is within 3". So you would have to get the entire unit within 3" to stop Freezing Grip. And if you have used Freezing Grip on a unit, the ones that come back are stationary too as it specifies that the unit is stationary for a round. (This doesn't apply to feat-frozen ones) 1) Yes, you are correct. The approach (seen it) in these games is to keep the ones that are near where S can successfully land a move-spell-WR FG within 3 inches of the SG. It is a big ass clump of statues. 2) No. I had this specifically "purpled" back in the day. They are NOT stationary. If memory serves this revolved around ghost fleet or perhaps Gravedigger trenchers (juris would know) but while the grunt can not get orders they are very much not stationary. |
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Post by sand20go on Feb 24, 2019 19:59:06 GMT
Page 60 is point on in the rule book.
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 24, 2019 20:15:08 GMT
Nope, you're wrong. As per Pg 65: "When a spell or effect affects a unit, it affects models that are later added to the unit until the spell or effect expires. If no models remain in a unit, any unit-affecting spells or effects on that unit expire." Freezing Grip makes the unit Stationary for one round. Any models added to the unit also becomes stationary until such time as Freezing Grip expires. It works this way because FG says the unit becomes stationary for a round, not that the models in the unit become stationary. EDIT: Link
EDIT 2: I think I found the previous purple ruling that you're referring to, and it is from Mk2. |
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932 
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Post by Ganso on Feb 24, 2019 20:25:37 GMT
The difference is that Stationary is not a spell effect.
Freezing Grip is a one shot that makes model/units stationary. It is not an ongoing spell effect.
Something that would dispel Spell Effects would not make these models Not Stationary.
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 24, 2019 20:29:17 GMT
The difference is that Stationary is not a spell effect. Freezing Grip is a one shot that makes model/units stationary. It is not an ongoing spell effect. Something that would dispel Spell Effects would not make these models Not Stationary. If it's not an ongoing spell effect, why does it have a duration of RND? |
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Feb 24, 2019 20:42:11 GMT
Huh, good point.
I would have expected PP to use their boiler plate of "Target model/unit is affected by Freezing Grip. A model affected by Freezing Grip is Stationary"
Seems like a question for the Rules Forum
Edit: looks like the ruling was reversed for Mk3!
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Feb 24, 2019 23:06:09 GMT
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 24, 2019 23:14:05 GMT
Another particularly hilarious potential interaction is that you can freeze models with Immunity: Cold in the right circumstances. How? Well... A unit only has Immunity: Cold if all members of a unit have the Immunity. (Pg 9 of Prime: "Additionally, a model can be identified by its own rules; for this to apply to a unit, however, all models in the unit must have the identifying rule." This is also backed up by a more in-depth purple ruling HERE) Because of the wording of Freezing Grip, 'Target model/unit becomes stationary for one round unless it has Immunity: Cold', this means that a unit of Northkin Raiders with a Trollkin Sorcerer attached could be made stationary with FG, (assuming they're not in SotN)! This would work because since not all members of the unit have Immunity: Cold, it is not classed as a unit with Immunity: Cold. QED Sorscha is able to freeze Northkin Raiders despite their Immunity. It's obscure enough that it will never happen, but it tickles me to know it's possible. |
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Feb 25, 2019 4:04:42 GMT
Oh wow. Some truly fantastic information in this thread! Thanks for the heads up everybody, I will have to start dorking around with Sorscha1 more.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Feb 25, 2019 4:28:37 GMT
Hocestbellum, that may never be an issue with raiders, but Skaldi make his entire unit Northkin... Which would include the attached sorcerer... Never mind. I thought I found a loophole that would screw over some of my factions meta lists, but I didn't. Yay?
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Post by borderprince on Feb 25, 2019 7:43:44 GMT
1) ...The approach (seen it) in these games is to keep the ones that are near where S can successfully land a move-spell-WR FG within 3 inches of the SG. It is a big ass clump of statues. Sounds like a reason to make sure a Sorscha1 list includes a colossal. A Victor pie plate would love that kind of clumping (especially setting the survivors on fire). Conquest isn't quite so good, but a Critical Devastation on all those models would be fun (if rather clock-consuming).
I'm actually starting to come around to Sorscha1 in LoS as a possibility at the moment.
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