|
Post by jonnyboy on Feb 4, 2019 4:23:25 GMT
Just played a game against tharn and I go smashed hard. 6 tharn ravagers (no joke) killed ~15 WGI(rockets too), beast 09, and a battle engine.
But i did find that sorscha 1 with adjunct was a hard stop. There are some options with these two. She can freezing grip from 16" away, stops him, and something else can wallop him. In my case it was a WG gun carriage within 13". You could also feat and adjunct someone else for eyeless sight + auto hit. Sorscha 1 feat feels solid into a medium based army spam.
|
|
|
Post by jdeckert on Feb 4, 2019 5:19:32 GMT
I don't want to be a jerk but honestly this answer suggests.... A) you don't play B) You are part of the problem - circle players that are gaming the CID by underplaying the model. ... So again - do you not play the game or are you a circle troll? C'mon, dude. That's a little harsh.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Feb 4, 2019 6:03:24 GMT
I don't want to be a jerk but honestly this answer suggests.... A) you don't play B) You are part of the problem - circle players that are gaming the CID by underplaying the model. ... So again - do you not play the game or are you a circle troll? C'mon, dude. That's a little harsh. True. It was. But it isn't that he is stealthy. That is SUPPOSED to be hard to kill. It is that he creates a huge "no go" bubble. Essentially within 16 inches of him you have to maintain distance. And yes. The Spriggan is a TERRIBLE idea because of the RNG of the respective weapons. The one thing you can not let him do is CHARGE something and then bounce off it. It really becomes game ending. What you are hoping for, best case, is for the LotF to be presented with at best a straight up trade - 7 points of yours for his. the far better choice for destealthing is Victor but again, any circle player worth there salt knows that Lord is basically their version of Eiyrss 1 and isn't going to throw it away cheap.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Feb 4, 2019 6:09:22 GMT
Just played a game against tharn and I go smashed hard. 6 tharn ravagers (no joke) killed ~15 WGI(rockets too), beast 09, and a battle engine. But i did find that sorscha 1 with adjunct was a hard stop. There are some options with these two. She can freezing grip from 16" away, stops him, and something else can wallop him. In my case it was a WG gun carriage within 13". You could also feat and adjunct someone else for eyeless sight + auto hit. Sorscha 1 feat feels solid into a medium based army spam. That absolutely is a viable play. The challenge absent puppet master is the challenge of needing the 15 if you are playing into Iona. Not at ALL impossible but you have to hit it - or then they are dodging forward (and if you give them Vengeance and then Hunters Mark on something - Oiy! And yes - S1 is a great drop with FEAT into that stuff. I do think (similar to Zerkova1) you will have to build for a "refused flank". For Z it is that she really wants to catch as much stuff as possible so it can't give orders. For S1 it is the LOS in the middle you really can't get the coverage you can if you skew to one side or the other. The trick is figuring out what to put on the opposite end so you can weather things out/roll up. And yes, the adjunct will make this MASSIVELY better. Still have to deal with LOS blocking from forests but there are a LOT better options here - including simply brining Irusk2, getting a good chance to feat, Guidance on your thing with FFE and just pounding him into the dirt.
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Feb 4, 2019 8:29:20 GMT
Glad to see I'm not the only one who found the Circle CiD dumb. The number of battle reports lately where LotF just screws half the opponents army is pretty telling. Have read about him taking out whole units, almost one-rounding a Khador heavy (while killing multiple other models in the same activation of course), or just randomly assassinating from nowhere.
Haven't played against it yet due to not being at home, but I guess I'd go jack heavy into Circle to avoid LotF demolishing everything? But post CiD I think their beasts are a lot happier into ours and jack heavy really doesn't like control lists that they do so well, so it's probably not great actually. Maybe OW2 or Vlad2?
I know this is more negative than my normal posts, but I don't see how Circle came out of CiD the way it did.
Cheers, Dave
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Feb 4, 2019 9:06:20 GMT
Haha add one rounding a battle engine in one activation and crippling two heavies while killing a solo to the list of stupid things I've read about LotF doing!
On a closer look I think OW2 might be mandatory due to LotF. An 11" bubble of no-go is far more manageable than a 16" one.
Cheers, Dave
|
|
|
Post by Mr.Human on Feb 4, 2019 10:12:11 GMT
Vlad 2 with MoWs (Drakhun even) and/or Manhunter with a free Yuri, ignores forests and has a nice threat with the feat.
Vlad2 and MoWs seem to have a decent game against Tharn, much more so then Karchev & jaws, although yes a jack heavy list would laugh at LotF, but not so much against his friends.
Only played one game against the new LotF, and it wasn't a Tharn heavy list, so take this statement with that in mind.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Feb 4, 2019 14:21:56 GMT
Vlad 2 with MoWs (Drakhun even) and/or Manhunter with a free Yuri, ignores forests and has a nice threat with the feat. Vlad2 and MoWs seem to have a decent game against Tharn, much more so then Karchev & jaws, although yes a jack heavy list would laugh at LotF, but not so much against his friends. Only played one game against the new LotF, and it wasn't a Tharn heavy list, so take this statement with that in mind. I made a mistake but Vlad2 MoW will struggle because DemoCorp and Bombers are just ARM 16. He needs 8s to get the chain going and since he makes his thresher for "free" he is essentially killing anything within 2 inches. THe problem is that Vlad likes them to be somewhat bunched up so he can get as many token targets as possible. that said I need to try it again to see.
|
|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Feb 4, 2019 15:02:48 GMT
MOW with vlad seems a poor matchup to me on paper. Besides feat turn, AC is out threated, their defensive stats can't stand up to a ravager or Blood pack.
I have a feeling that demo will need to mini feat early to not get killed by the blood pack. Also LOTF will smash the demo corps, he threats 16" they threat 14".
Our ranged presence is shut down or severely hindered via Phantasm and Sure foot.
|
|
vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
|
Post by vlad on Feb 4, 2019 15:31:27 GMT
I play both Khador and Circle and would have to agree that the LotF came out of the CID a bit too strong. I’d take him even without Death Powered for zero points.
I’ve faced Iona1 with the LotF several times with Malakov2 AC, and found that you have to take the alpha from the LotF on the chin, while trying to not give him a too good option for this quasi Thresher attack. If he gets only two non-Tanker MoW models I’m very happy, three is normal, and four is bad. If you don’t manage to kill him after his alpha it’s really bad.
Last but not least, I’ve found Malakov2 to be quite playable into Iona’s DH - I guess it’s a 50/50 matchup, but Malakov2 is quite difficult to play “right”. Tharn don’t like being set on fire, and Malakov2’s feat is hard to deal with for models that can’t kill the MoW in a single blow.
I’d also agree that Sorscha1 is ready for a comeback. I’ve been considering her since the rise of infantry heavy lists after Primal Terrors, and the meta has been favoring her ever more since then. I’m currently getting ready to try her in Jaws, as I think the other options are not going to be good into Krueger1 Raptor, something a strong local player has been running recently.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Feb 4, 2019 15:33:16 GMT
MOW with vlad seems a poor matchup to me on paper. Besides feat turn, AC is out threated, their defensive stats can't stand up to a ravager or Blood pack. I have a feeling that demo will need to mini feat early to not get killed by the blood pack. Also LOTF will smash the demo corps, he threats 16" they threat 14". Our ranged presence is shut down or severely hindered via Phantasm and Sure foot.That That was my experience (https://socalkhador.blogspot.com/) Another challenge is the wolves. They skirmish hard and further force the MoWs to bubble (which LotF loves) Adjunct will help. You can zap out the Victor shot if in your list from downtown or a chariot or a bomber. But I also want to try Vlad2 playing backwards into Iona - Feating on Shocks and simply pushing way forward and then shooting a bunch of stuff with their shield cannons under HoF. That is, with the kovnik, a 15 inch threat AND you are now ARM 24 right in his face. With Retaliatory strike you will need HoF 6's to force the tough check after the counter feat and HE needs to roll a 14 on the charge attack. Meanwhile you use the pieplates of nope to try to protect the bombers and the DC from shooting. but I think that this still DEMANDS that you kill the dumb LotF first - or else the plan falls apart as he simply pops into the back arc of the Shocks and softens them up OR goes after the Bombers and DC to wreck THEM...The pie plates are just so hard to position so that you cover everything on a model that moves 6 and shoots 10 and has pathfinder (and where Hunters mark is avaiable if he needs to charge something)
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Feb 4, 2019 15:57:33 GMT
I play both Khador and Circle and would have to agree that the LotF came out of the CID a bit too strong. I’d take him even without Death Powered for zero points. I’ve faced Iona1 with the LotF several times with Malakov2 AC, and found that you have to take the alpha from the LotF on the chin, while trying to not give him a too good option for this quasi Thresher attack. If he gets only two non-Tanker MoW models I’m very happy, three is normal, and four is bad. If you don’t manage to kill him after his alpha it’s really bad. Last but not least, I’ve found Malakov2 to be quite playable into Iona’s DH - I guess it’s a 50/50 matchup, but Malakov2 is quite difficult to play “right”. Tharn don’t like being set on fire, and Malakov2’s feat is hard to deal with for models that can’t kill the MoW in a single blow. I’d also agree that Sorscha1 is ready for a comeback. I’ve been considering her since the rise of infantry heavy lists after Primal Terrors, and the meta has been favoring her ever more since then. I’m currently getting ready to try her in Jaws, as I think the other options are not going to be good into Krueger1 Raptor, something a strong local player has been running recently. Great observation. I think you are exactly right about Andy2 - high skill cap but if you can get him to work - Oiy! Are you playing him with Double shocks or some other load out? I think your suggestion to get rid of Death powered OR to change it just to an Arm buff makes the most sense. I love him as an infantry clearer and that feels "fair". But to provide POW 16 Thresher followed by the corpse mechanic is just really really strong - especially when it is relatively trivial for him to have 3 corpses on him.
|
|
|
Post by streetpizza on Feb 4, 2019 16:26:22 GMT
So just reading through this and are people only seeing LotF with Iona and without stones?
I see the 16" threat number being thrown around but if you lock that in your mind you'll end up being caught off guard.
Standing in a triangle of stones he immediately goes up to 18" and its not had to have that triangle behind a forest. Also be careful of any of the following just in case:
- Grayle feat makes him base 19 and 21" if he's can do it in the stones. Stormrager makes him mat 10 and P+S 18. - Kreuger 2 TK adds 2" to everything he does - Mohsar Mirrage adds 2" to everything he does - any list with Lanyssa means his charge is 13" out not 11". Add 2 to 3" for any of the above casters on that. So with Grayle he's got a possible 16" CHARGE range and 24" bird.
Then there are a bunch of damage buffs that push him up to P+S 18. Don't just assume the Iona match up because she actually does nothing for him. He's much worse in other lists and it gets stupid fast.
Best tactic I've seen for controlling him is to have all of the most vulnerable models stand around a shield guard such that there isn't a landing spot for him near the shield guard. That way when you guard the bird shot he has to stay where he is because he's legally not allowed to teleport.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Feb 4, 2019 17:38:33 GMT
So just reading through this and are people only seeing LotF with Iona and without stones? I see the 16" threat number being thrown around but if you lock that in your mind you'll end up being caught off guard. Standing in a triangle of stones he immediately goes up to 18" and its not had to have that triangle behind a forest. Also be careful of any of the following just in case: - Grayle feat makes him base 19 and 21" if he's can do it in the stones. Stormrager makes him mat 10 and P+S 18. - Kreuger 2 TK adds 2" to everything he does - Mohsar Mirrage adds 2" to everything he does - any list with Lanyssa means his charge is 13" out not 11". Add 2 to 3" for any of the above casters on that. So with Grayle he's got a possible 16" CHARGE range and 24" bird. Then there are a bunch of damage buffs that push him up to P+S 18. Don't just assume the Iona match up because she actually does nothing for him. He's much worse in other lists and it gets stupid fast. Best tactic I've seen for controlling him is to have all of the most vulnerable models stand around a shield guard such that there isn't a landing spot for him near the shield guard. That way when you guard the bird shot he has to stay where he is because he's legally not allowed to teleport. Thanks. So far only seen in Iona but you are right - all the above just further abuses him.
|
|
|
Post by marxlives on Feb 4, 2019 17:46:24 GMT
Send an nonliving model after the LoF, like Scrapjack.
|
|