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Post by The Snark Knight on Jan 30, 2019 22:55:43 GMT
Ternion are ironically more useless than they were before CID. Probably true, but I'll take them worse and free. Blizzard is nice.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 30, 2019 23:03:55 GMT
Doomies back to 10, yay spam. Koldun lord is damn busted. Can he cast the escort things or are those not spells? Ternion are ironically more useless than they were before CID. Time will tell but expectation is that all the attachment things will be star actions and thus cast able. 3 guidance target a turn
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cuberic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by cuberic on Jan 30, 2019 23:16:53 GMT
I think bonds of woe is pretty good. You get rfp and recursion all in one spell. Under zerkova 2 you could possibly get 22 bonds of woe off. That's quite an attrition swing.
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Post by jdeckert on Jan 30, 2019 23:22:06 GMT
Ternion are ironically more useless than they were before CID. Really? Clouds on doom reavers is more useful and frostbite to bonds of woe is a lateral move at worst. Yeah, you could catch more targets with the spray, but bonds of woe has better range and could give you a bonus reaver. They're pretty much strictly better and can be taken as a free option. You'll definitely see them more than before.
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Post by mcdermott on Jan 30, 2019 23:24:10 GMT
Ternion are ironically more useless than they were before CID. Probably true, but I'll take them worse and free. Blizzard is nice. How? you can get them free, they gained a rfp, the horses were better with frostbite to begin with and now blizzard can target the line troops in the theme. Not being used to MAYBE not being used is not somehow more useless
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Post by hocestbellum on Jan 30, 2019 23:42:45 GMT
Ternion are ironically more useless than they were before CID. Really? Clouds on doom reavers is more useful and frostbite to bonds of woe is a lateral move at worst. Yeah, you could catch more targets with the spray, but bonds of woe has better range and could give you a bonus reaver. They're pretty much strictly better and can be taken as a free option. You'll definitely see them more than before. I'm kinda with smoothcriminal on this one, although I wouldn't call them useless. Clouds on Doom Reavers is a relatively insignificant change, and the recursion effect has a lot of riders: Living model, return not add, unit within command range, returned model completely within 3" of the Ternion model, returned model within formation, and loses its combat action. (That living warrior RFP only thing is a big deal, too, as most of the best recursion is not on living models.) They already had a RNG10 shot before, and whilst the extra power and situational RFP are nice the fact remains that they are victims as soon as they come forwards to use it. So if I'm only getting one shot, I'd rather have the spray.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jan 31, 2019 4:53:14 GMT
Really surprised people think ternion are worse now. I've been getting them into just about every list I have. the fact remains that they are victims as soon as they come forwards to use it. Just want to touch on this. In my experience this simply isn't the case. It's not because their stats are good (they're obviously bad), it's because the opponent is also worrying about a couple jacks and a heap of doom reavers at the point the ternion and koldun lords come forward. They simply aren't far enough up the list of targets to be singled out because the reavers pose such a threat. I've rarely had them be directly targeted, they're more likely to get caught in a random blast or spray targeting something else. So when looking at the survivabilty of models in the theme you have to think about whether they are even being attacked in any meaningful way. Ternion aren't in my experience. Cheers, Dave
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Jan 31, 2019 5:06:14 GMT
I think that 2x Koldun Lord, 1x Ternion and the Adjunct is a bargain package that will be found in many lists.
I don’t think a second unit of Ternion will be common, but one unit really increases utility for a bargain price if combined with the Lords.
A second or third unit of Ternion is most likely going to be a choice to solve for a particular issue that might appear in the meta, and not something that appears commonly in lists.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jan 31, 2019 8:10:13 GMT
(That living warrior RFP only thing is a big deal, too, as most of the best recursion is not on living models.) Morvahna disagrees.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jan 31, 2019 8:46:28 GMT
It's not like I think they're terrible or anything. But they had numerous problems before the CID, and I don't think the CID has actually helped them in any meaningful way except for the fact that they can now be free. If they weren't free, would they be taken? I don't think they would, and that's the standard by which I'm judging them.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jan 31, 2019 9:35:50 GMT
By that standard then fair enough. I think I'd struggle to put them in lists. But then I'm not sure I'd take Yuri if he wasn't free, though he performs well whenever I use him.
So yeah I can see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure it's the only way to judge the models.
Cheers, Dave
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on Jan 31, 2019 13:59:52 GMT
It's not like I think they're terrible or anything. But they had numerous problems before the CID, and I don't think the CID has actually helped them in any meaningful way except for the fact that they can now be free. If they weren't free, would they be taken? I don't think they would, and that's the standard by which I'm judging them. What if they were not free and 3 points? I think their point cost is bonkers for the work they do, which free sidesteps. Being priced at 70% of the cost of another unit of Reavers is bonkers when comparing this way.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jan 31, 2019 14:08:11 GMT
Ternion are ironically more useless than they were before CID. Really? Clouds on doom reavers is more useful and frostbite to bonds of woe is a lateral move at worst. Yeah, you could catch more targets with the spray, but bonds of woe has better range and could give you a bonus reaver. They're pretty much strictly better and can be taken as a free option. You'll definitely see them more than before. Ternion clouds never made competitive impact before themes, so I'm very sceptical about them making impact now that they are limited to a theme without really good target for them. Meanwhile their sprays were premier infantry clears and they lost it. Their freeze spell solved some meta things like Admonition and they lost it too. It also helped doomies hit, now doomies have actual problem with hitting def 14+ things.
Rfp is a thing, but do we need it anymore? Especially in these low amounts?
I guess 3x free ternion + doomie spam under Irusk2 can be a real thing now, but not because ternions being good, rather because spam of tough+no-knockdown is good and free points of any kind are good.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jan 31, 2019 14:11:48 GMT
Their freeze spell solved some meta things like Admonition and they lost it too. It also helped doomies hit, now doomies have actual problem with hitting def 14+ things. You do know they still have Ice Cage, right? What if they were not free and 3 points? But what if Greylord Ternion were 3 points?
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Post by hocestbellum on Jan 31, 2019 14:41:01 GMT
I'm pretty sure the Greylords don't even do anything for the Reavers that couldn't just be achieved by taking more Reavers. Help them survive? Take more in the first place! Bring some back? Take more in the first place! Ice cage isn't really replicable in this way unless you go for 'more attacks = more accuracy', in which case... Attacks missing? Make more attacks!
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