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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Sept 1, 2018 21:30:44 GMT
I feel like just giving him Mat6 and critical pitch on his melee weapon would be enough to see him played. It would bring his melee up to the same levels as the Axer and the Bouncer and critical pitch isn't a super huge buff, but it be something trolls don't have yet. Do we really need another melee offensive light?
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Post by Phlushot on Sept 2, 2018 6:07:40 GMT
In the majority of every Troll list you have 12 points for the stone and 15 for the Mauler. 25% of your list is basically predetermined. You're also almost always going to want either an Earthborn or a Bomber (or another heavy). So you're looking at 41-46 of your ~105 total being taken by heavies and the stone. I know there are lists that don't take exactly that but the vast majority of lists that are either posted on here or FB or that I see pop up in tournaments have this basic formula. And I'm not saying that any of those models are bad, they're all pretty great models but they take a bunch of space in your list. If you're making a SotN list you've probably got 20 points tied up in bears, plus another 16-21 tied in a unit of champs. The points disappear really quick when you started out with 40% of your points locked up right off the bat. Finding room for a light or two is just hard, specially when outside of PoD they don't contribute to free points. Hell Horthol fits into the same spot. He's a perfectly good model I just almost never have room for an 8 point model that isn't contributing to free points and isn't a heavy. And even if I do find space for a light they still require support to be good. I can toss a Charger into any Cygnar list and for the cost of one focus it'll contribute in virtually every game. If I want any of the Troll lights to contribute I have to give them "stuff", whether it's just the stone buff or Rage or whatever. They add complexity and activation considerations when I already have plenty of that. I'd much prefer if they either provided utility or were much more self-sufficient (but didn't accept as much from the outside). Take away Thrown (and compensate in other ways of course) from the Impaler so his gun can't become Pow 17-19 and now it's much more flexible when I can activate him and get stuff done. I 100% agree about the lights and their animus'. I don't know how many times I've thought about a model and thought "man this would be awesome if it had this animus" rushed over to War Room because I couldn't remember for sure whether it was range SELF and then been disappointed. If you're taking max stone and a mauler in every list you're doing it wrong Start looking at min stone options, Rok and the colossals. Rok is great, the Kings all have excellent strengths. But unless I have something specific in mind, almost all my lists start with Mauler and max Stone. Rok might replace the Mauler, the Stone might need to be min to fit "something" in, but that's an exception not the rule. And the majority of lists that are posted and/or pop up in tournaments that I see are consistent with that. And really both of those examples only make it even harder to fit a light or two into the list since they're so expensive.
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snot
Light Addition
Posts: 63
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Post by snot on Sept 2, 2018 7:24:53 GMT
Make him 8pts, reload 1
Then i may start thinking not taking a bomber
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Sept 2, 2018 22:02:20 GMT
How about with calandra with an impaler? I know she doesnt need far strike, but what about def 14 vs charging, impacts and slams under star crossed? Or effective def 16 , if the swamp troll comes into play. Could be cute. But it does further illustrate my earlier point about his defense. It should be higher, and the armor could drop a smidge.
War Room Army
Trollblood - calandra impalers
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood - WB: +27 - Troll Impaler - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Troll Impaler - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Swamp Troll - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14
Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Northkin Shaman - PC: 0
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Runeshapers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
THEME: The Power of Dhunia ---
GENERATED : 09/02/2018 14:56:30 BUILD ID : 2067.18-06-10
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Post by profdikweed on Sept 3, 2018 0:35:37 GMT
- Troll Impaler - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Troll Impaler - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used) You spelt Mulg wrong. jks. I appreciate your commitment to try getting them to work.
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Sept 3, 2018 0:55:47 GMT
- Troll Impaler - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Troll Impaler - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used) You spelt Mulg wrong. jks. I appreciate your commitment to try getting them to work. Haha. Yeah, Calandra does like a good arcnode.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 10, 2018 14:55:30 GMT
Sorry, didn't read all the posts, but I think that the pyre troll is definitely a fine light. The auto fire ranged weapon combined with a very solid animus for our more melee-centric locks makes him quite valuable For 8-points, the Pyre is at least niche-playable. If I have either Fire Eaters or any version of Borka or Madrak I will seriously consider him. Both and I will go out of my way to find the points.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 10, 2018 15:16:55 GMT
If you're taking max stone and a mauler in every list you're doing it wrong Start looking at min stone options, Rok and the colossals. Or don't stubbornly cram a Mauler into every single list even when there's no need for one. Axer/Mauler is actually a terrible BG for Band of Heroes or SOTN. Not only are you wasting 2 or 3 warbeast points, but that Mauler is either going to get shot to pieces before it gets into melee or sit back and do nothing until it's almost too late, or you have to maneuver it past the Champs, who are perfectly capable of cracking the same armor with support comparable to the 2 fury your warlock spent to put Rage on the Mauler. And when there's only one other beast, you need Rage even less. You would literally be better off with Mauler/Impaler/Bouncer in Band or Mauler/Winter/Pyre for the Northkin if you must have a Mauler. Or better yet, use your battlegroup to bring some ranged support to an otherwise mostly melee list. 2x Bombers is not as crazy as it looks, and is often actually better than any option above. I've even seen Jarl and Madrak 3 win without the Krielstone.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Sept 10, 2018 15:28:08 GMT
If you're taking max stone and a mauler in every list you're doing it wrong Start looking at min stone options, Rok and the colossals. Or don't stubbornly cram a Mauler into every single list even when there's no need for one. Axer/Mauler is actually a terrible BG for Band of Heroes or SOTN. Not only are you wasting 2 or 3 warbeast points, but that Mauler is either going to get shot to pieces before it gets into melee or sit back and do nothing until it's almost too late, or you have to maneuver it past the Champs, who are perfectly capable of cracking the same armor with support comparable to the 2 fury your warlock spent to put Rage on the Mauler. And when there's only one other beast, you need Rage even less. You would literally be better off with Mauler/Impaler/Bouncer in Band or Mauler/Winter/Pyre for the Northkin if you must have a Mauler. Or better yet, use your battlegroup to bring some ranged support to an otherwise mostly melee list. 2x Bombers is not as crazy as it looks, and is often actually better than any option above. I've even seen Jarl and Madrak 3 win without the Krielstone. Couldn't agree more. I see so many Maulers sitting back doing nothing.
Take a Gargantuan instead or lights with ranged melee and then trigger Charge of the Trolls.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 10, 2018 16:17:53 GMT
Well, Cygnar plays 3 or 4 lights for efficiency while we play 1 or 2 for utility. It's not really the same.
That doesn't have to always be the Axer and Storm though. I mentioned the Pyre, but also the Swamp Troll is great in scenario and assassination lists. The Winter can help with that too, or it can unjam Champs and Bears in SOTN. The Basher is very good for a bargain beast, especially with a useful animus that is even better on something cheap and tradable. We do not have a fighting light as ubiquitous as the Charger, but most factions don't. That's fine.
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