|
Post by knapsen on Apr 13, 2017 10:39:26 GMT
Hej folks, for a coming Steamroller Tournament I'm looking for a congenial partner of my Grissel2, double Bomber, MK Shootie list. I think the partner has to play especially against Cloud lists like HR1 and H3. So I need a partner for Grissel2 more or less against Cygnar(H2,H3, Nemo, Solan), Menoth (HR1, Harbinger, Amon, Durst). Maybe also a good counter against the new Cryx comeback is needed (RFP). Here are my two possibilities at the moment: pGrissel misseil (POD) with Nigh Troll Spam against Clouds and some other Tricks. Because of more a less WM drop I'll bring in Horgle1 with Slag Troll: Trollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Grissel 1) Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Storm Troll [9] - Swamp Troll [8] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Horgle Ironstrike [0(4)] - Slag Troll [10] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Dhunian Knot [6] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0b589D5-czczcz7h0s0hbLed5L6Rfp0k0mOtherwise play a pBorka with Arcane Shield, Wind Wall and threat range extension: Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes (Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Rok [21] - Troll Axer [10] Trollkin Champion Hero [0(5)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Sons of Bragg [11] Trollkin Champions (max) [17] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0a079D5-7n0h6O0k0mc86kbKWhat do you think. Is one of these lists good to pair with Grissel2? Greets knapsen
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Apr 13, 2017 14:01:39 GMT
I am still fairly new to the game, but I have been studying one other faction at a time trying to understand common lists and strategies. The past few days I studied through H2s common lists and synergies and I actually picked my Grissel2 PoD list to be my favorite drop against her. If I keep my beasts in the stone and remove their models that boost their damage they can shoot at me all day. Of course my list includes axers to get the bombers to a 19" threat, so maybe that changes things.
I say that to ask this... am I wrong in my thinking there? When I read this I immediately assumed my evaluation was wrong. Lol
I'd say the same for HR1. Grissel2 and dual bombers can make sure entire units come off the board to keep her feat from swinging things, and once again the stone keeps the typical units she brings with her from doing much damage. Again... I suspect I may be wrong in my strategic thinking here so I'd love some dialog around this.
|
|
|
Post by knapsen on Apr 13, 2017 14:25:46 GMT
Thanks for your advices!
But especially against Cygnar you should not count on the ARM aura. Because skilled Cygnar opponents will leap your stone very fast. Sure you can try to avoid the leaps. But it's very hard. On the other hand H2 is only one thing. Especially H3 and H1 and their cloud are looking like a problem. Keeping everything out range means also often loosing to scenario. For these reasons I'll try to be fast in melee (Borka) or play eyeless (Grissel1).
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Apr 13, 2017 16:35:29 GMT
I too think Grissel 2 is good against cygnar. the electroleap thing is a Female Dog for sure, but it becomes sort of a minigame between you and your opponent. Model placement is super critical and with clouds (from shamans) to block LoS and placing every model so that no model has the stone bearer as the nearest model, you can prevent stone death. The fireyfly is the most dangerous guy here since he leaps d3 times (of and laddermore ofc) but you have great tools in your grissel list to deal with them with your super strong shooting. Same goes for thorn with haley. Grissel can shoot that guy dead and all of a sudden haley is not so safe anymore.
Borka 1 is a good partner though imo. He can have his beasts trample really far for free and get at things behind clouds. He can play against cygnar too in a pinch if haley 3 is an issue. I think your list looks good, but i would use a fell caller rather than a champ hero. I find him much more useful over all.
|
|
|
Post by knapsen on Apr 13, 2017 18:05:35 GMT
I also thought, that a good position of the stone guys round the stone can be the key. I'll give them a try the next time.
The biggest problem is not the leap tough, it is more the cloud wall or other LOS blocking shanigan. So the trample is a good option to get through the wall. Do you think that Grissel1 will not cover the other matchups/factions?
Do you think the a Fell Caller ist really needed? Champions have MAT7 and relentless charge with skladi. A retaliatory strike with weapon Master und RFP sounds not that bad. Especially against more and more coming dude spams.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Apr 13, 2017 19:47:48 GMT
Well, if you want to play against dudes with champions, they will need to hit DEF 13-15 on a regular basis. Even though a 6+ is LIKELY to hit, it is by no means guaranteed. You will notice the difference between MAT 7 and MAT 9 when fighting infantry for sure. It also makes it easier for them to play turn 1, since they can run through a forest if needed. I find the retaliatory strike underwhelming. If they kill you 6 champions, you get 2 retaliatory strikes on average, but only against things with less than 2" reach. Just the fell caller spray ought to do more work than that tbh A chronicler would be neat too though, since that can make the champs DEF 16 against ranged attacks. It is a bit hard to fit in that list, unless you drop the free fell caller for the chronicler... About Grissel 1, i do not really see how she solves the cloud wall problem though. Doesnt really seem like a good pairing at a glance at least.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 13, 2017 20:45:34 GMT
Knapsen, you're working along basically the same lines I am right now.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 13, 2017 20:58:13 GMT
Whelps can help soak e-leaps once you get the timing and placement down.
|
|
|
Post by knapsen on Apr 14, 2017 12:38:55 GMT
True, whelps could be very helpful to have cheap targets for the leaps. Could be right. Also the Fall caller makes the list bit more flexible. For me the 5 pts for Skladi are also above the top, but I think he is more or less needed. It is also possible to switch out the Rök for a shootie option like double swamps and whelps. I also liked the Long Riders until the last Errata. Self slamming was nice trick. Having the Champs in the Wind Wall aura let me not missing the chronicler that much.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 14, 2017 22:11:46 GMT
I finally got around to actually playing Grissel's Missiles and I liked it quite a bit. It was engaging and fun and I felt like I was really playing the game if that makes any sense. I also joined the Killed a Colossal With a Slag Troll Club, though he did have help from Horgle's Molten Metal spell.
I got bogged down by Cryx recursion but might have pulled it off anyway with one more turn. I think I'd have to pair it with something much better at killing infantry, like oh say, Grissel 2 with two Bombers and a Mountain King.
|
|
|
Post by knapsen on Apr 14, 2017 22:38:52 GMT
I finally got around to actually playing Grissel's Missiles and I liked it quite a bit. It was engaging and fun and I felt like I was really playing the game if that makes any sense. I also joined the Killed a Colossal With a Slag Troll Club, though he did have help from Horgle's Molten Metal spell. I got bogged down by Cryx recursion but might have pulled it off anyway with one more turn. I think I'd have to pair it with something much better at killing infantry, like oh say, Grissel 2 with two Bombers and a Mountain King. Grats to your success!! Which Grissel list have you played? Sounds like you'll give both Grissels a try for tournaments?
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 15, 2017 1:25:09 GMT
This is the list I played on Vassal: conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0b589D9Dczczczcz03bLed5L5LfJfJ6R0k0mI don't actually own any Night Trolls. My one worry so far is that it actually needs more Pathfinder. Boundless Charge is great but limited in what it can do. I need to squeeze in an Axer, Earthborn, or both. Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Grissel 1) Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Pyre Troll [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Horgle Ironstrike [0(4)] - Slag Troll [10] - Slag Troll [10] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [4] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 15, 2017 3:00:27 GMT
Is this any better? conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0b589D9Dczczczcz0hbLed035LfJfJ6R0k0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Grissel 1) Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Horgle Ironstrike [0(4)] - Pyre Troll [9] - Slag Troll [10] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [4] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
|
|
|
Post by knapsen on Apr 15, 2017 14:41:25 GMT
You really had the feeling, that two Mauler are needed or only to have an redundancy for the Rage Animus? Also think that an Axer is mandatory with her. Two shamans for protecting Grissel or what are their game plan? I can't see their advance at the moment. Having a cloud screen sounds good, but seems very expensive (also in real currency) for that. Whelps, Moses and Horgle seem to be the best options in PoD. I really also like the puppet master thing with Knot for only one more point.
|
|
|
Post by Suchasound on Apr 15, 2017 17:15:09 GMT
Going back to the main topic I think egrissel should be a good drop vs cygnar. Janissa +deflection help increase defence for ur bombers to 16. In my opinion the biggest weakness for egrissel is dealing with jackspam and high armor. Pairing it with edoomy seems to cover each others weaknesses.
|
|