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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 25, 2018 22:30:06 GMT
Remember first version of Mow Supressor Tanker? Atanas +1 hit to whole army? Yeah. The broken stuff will get toned down. Unless it's Cryx of course, then it becomes more broken usually. I'm also not that sure if this thing is that good. It is essentially a 16pt huge based mediocre heavy. Broken BEs usually have broken guns, but this one doesn't. Yeah the tankers were crazy and are still really good. I guess i was mostly taking about the BE. As for the supreme guardian, if you tack on zaal2 you're looking at possible arm 24, repair, vision to ignore something strong, and immortals for food. It doesnt have a great gun, but spd 6 reach 3 is an allstar threat range. Being huge is what might stabalize that, lack of pathfinder will be rough. |
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 25, 2018 22:55:32 GMT
Things on feat turns usually ARE ind of out of control.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 26, 2018 7:07:27 GMT
We just needed to refuse to buy those chariots until they made the rules bonkers!
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185 
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Post by leander on Jul 26, 2018 8:13:57 GMT
i just want black ivan to be cost effective, the behemoth theme restriction to be lifted #freebehemoth and for character merc units in legion of steel, am i asking for too much?  |
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Post by Netherby on Jul 26, 2018 8:31:54 GMT
That is like three different CIDs! Maybe in Mk4...
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2018 11:20:40 GMT
Did some math.
unbuffed, this thing has a 2% chance to kill a khador heavy and a 2% chance to kill a storm wall.
Honestly, the attack power isn't there. You guys scared of centurions under Kraye? It has the same output.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 26, 2018 12:33:03 GMT
Did some math. unbuffed, this thing has a 2% chance to kill a khador heavy and a 2% chance to kill a storm wall. Honestly, the attack power isn't there. You guys scared of centurions under Kraye? It has the same output. Is it ok to please share the maths? am interested in how you factor S&P
cheers
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jul 26, 2018 13:04:10 GMT
The simplest way to look at an 'add one drop one' effect is that it skews the odds to the right. Here are the highlights:
Average die roll : 8.45 (as opposed to 7)
52% chance to roll a 9+ (9,10,11,12)
1/216 chance to roll 2
1/18 chance to roll 12
The guardian will pretty much hit all of its attacks, so with a free charge and 3 buys at dice -2 its doing something like 26 damage to a Khador jack, with it more likely to skew higher than lower.
On the other hand, its designed to fight literally everything else in the game other than heavy jacks/beasts, so when you do the math on infantry/huge bases...
It does about 47 points of damage to a conquest.
It hits def 16 52% of the time with a pow 18, so it'll mulch any infantry it touches.
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Post by Valcaro on Jul 26, 2018 13:05:46 GMT
Did some math. unbuffed, this thing has a 2% chance to kill a khador heavy and a 2% chance to kill a storm wall. Honestly, the attack power isn't there. You guys scared of centurions under Kraye? It has the same output. Is it ok to please share the maths? am interested in how you factor S&P
cheers
Just checked: odds of killing a jugger outright are 13,73%. With a 2 Point Swing they Go Up to 54,94%. Also not counting additional damage to other targets with thresher attacks. |
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2018 13:09:33 GMT
Did some math. unbuffed, this thing has a 2% chance to kill a khador heavy and a 2% chance to kill a storm wall. Honestly, the attack power isn't there. You guys scared of centurions under Kraye? It has the same output. Is it ok to please share the maths? am interested in how you factor S&P
cheers
I used odds machine. Basically it does 6.5 damage per hit on a juggernaut and can do that 4 times for 26 damage. |
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Post by Netherby on Jul 26, 2018 14:56:59 GMT
3D6 drop lowest actually changes things quite a bit from 2D6 since it pushes the average up to 9 without altering the ceiling. Your low rolls become much less probably while the high rolls increase in probability (You have better odds of rolling a 12 than a 5 for example).
So 26 damage would be on the low end of expected damage vs ARM 20.
But so what? There are very few things that can kill 34 boxes of ARM 20 in one round without buffs/debuffs helping them out. A Juggernaut doesn't do any better (it does worse). Then don't forget that it was 3" away, so if you want to attack it you have to move closer and get hit again with the defensive strike... Not to mention how easy it would be to stuff some jamming models in the gap given how easily it can attack over stuff.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2018 15:05:23 GMT
I'm just using the odds machine checker. It does 8.5 on 2D6 at dice -2.
Basically, it's a heavy on a huge base. That makes it easier to kill.
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Post by Valcaro on Jul 26, 2018 15:45:13 GMT
This 3" melee range is also pretty significant with thresher. Just to throw around some numbers:
The melee area of a huge base model with 2" melee assuming this model uses thresher is 21,12 square inches.
If we increase the melee range to 3" the area increases to 36,39 square inches.
This in an increase of affected area of 72,3% compared to 2 inches melee. Take it as you will, but it does seem very powerful. I'm too lazy to count how many small, medium or large based models can potentially be affected, but you get the idea.
Edit: messed up the numbers, corrected
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Post by sand20go on Jul 26, 2018 15:52:20 GMT
This 3" melee range is also pretty significant with thresher. Just to throw around some numbers: The melee area of a huge base model with 2" melee assuming this model uses thresher is 21,12 square inches. If we increase the melee range to 3" the area increases to 36,39 square inches. This in an increase of affected area of 72,3% compared to 2 inches melee. Take it as you will, but it does seem very powerful. I'm too lazy to count how many small, medium or large based models can potentially be affected, but you get the idea. Edit: messed up the numbers, corrected MY guess is that either the 3 inch or the thresher goes. It is just too powerful. Think about that thing as a drop into Champion Trolls or PT. Will be ridiculously strong. I look forward to reading some CID battle reports. Testing is going to be hard. Flat out bet a beer that you will have either "It is way OP'ed" when it does things and then "It was irrelevant" when people (see us with a Victor or a Fun Carriage) just drop rough terrain every turn on it. Not sure WHAT PP will do in that case and I am not sure a model with bi-model output like that is "good for the game". |
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Post by MrHaystacks on Jul 26, 2018 15:58:13 GMT
Hmm, P+s 18 HoF. Avg Roll 8.45 vs Shockies under Shield wall= Arm 21
That's 5/6 pts of dmg per model under the thresher. Any other Med based infantry will just explode. (Bastions could do that sanguine bond thing to keep some alive I guess).
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