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Post by zerfius on Apr 11, 2017 18:59:55 GMT
Hey all,
I am new to Warmachine (and miniature gaming in general) and just wonder how all of you manage the time commitment. I bought into a faction so most of my models are painted, but I really want to change the paint scheme to put my own stamp on my models. Of course, I am not very good at painting yet (which means I am slow) and stripping the paint off of the current models is a chore in and of itself.
And that doesn't even take into account the time gaming actually takes. My group meets twice a week, and I have been trying to get there once to play at least one if not two games. I have not started using a death clock yet, but that will be introduced the next time I play. I also want to get better, so ample research time is needed to understand pairings, and strategies, and learning my enemy, etc.
I am a grown up (by societal standards anyway) so I have a job and a house and a wife and am just feeling like I will have a hard time trying to get my models to look the way I want them to and also be competitive with long time gamers.
This is not a rant or a sob story, I am just curious how others balance and prioritize their hobby time.
Thanks!
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Time....
Apr 11, 2017 20:26:59 GMT
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Post by schostoppa1 on Apr 11, 2017 20:26:59 GMT
i feel that pain. what ive decided to do is commit to painting a unit/jack a week. Or a couple solos. try not to sweat putting unpainted models on the board. youd rather have models painted to how you are pleased than rushed. What else would help as far as learn what your friends armies do is save their lists and go over them whenever you have a few spare minutes. try to remember what worked against you and what of yours worked well. Its all about using what little time you have to effectivly plan your lists for your own meta. Dont find the best list for your friends to play. Let them do all the leg work and then study what they bring.
also as a quick help on the painting/gameplay side. It helped me to learn the game to hurry and paint my front arcs on my models bases to help mitigate any facing disputes while i slowly paint up other models. it takes almost zero time and effort. takes away possible headaches and is easy to redo after your strip and basecoat your models again.
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Post by pangurban on Apr 11, 2017 21:25:50 GMT
You decide on your priorities and stick with that, is what it comes down to. I don't go out often and I watch very little tv. I do play video games, but no more than a few hours every week. Turns out that leaves me with quite a bit of time for things I want to do more (although I still work way too many hours). I don't think there's any real secret here: you allocate the most time to what you want to do most, and that's that.
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stumps
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Apr 12, 2017 2:50:52 GMT
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Post by stumps on Apr 12, 2017 2:50:52 GMT
Painting can be sped up greatly by using a basecoat-strong/dark tone-dullcote method. It will give passable to excellent results depending on the colours and the detail or style of the sculpt. If you're new to painting minis this is a great way to start - you'll achieve satisfying results quickly. You can speed things up more by restricting the palette of colours to a minimum, which has the benefit of ensuring your army looks cohesive.
On the competitive side, try listening to podcasts during your commute or workout or whatever. This will key you in to the perspectives of experienced competitive players and will broadly familiarize you with all sorts of things you won't come across playing limited games.
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Apr 12, 2017 6:12:06 GMT
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 12, 2017 6:12:06 GMT
I get in around 3 games a week because game night me and some friends get off work around 12. I paint feverishly the week before a major tournament
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Apr 12, 2017 7:14:50 GMT
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Post by unded on Apr 12, 2017 7:14:50 GMT
I hear you on the time issues. I'm also married, working, now have 2 young kids, and it can be quite daunting.
This is how I manage painting, but of course it's not for everyone:
1) be ruthless about playing painted. I don't put an unpainted mini on the table. Ever. If I have a new caster I want to play, this forces me to make time to paint. This can be harsh when starting out - try to arrange smaller games while painting your way up to a full steamroller pairing. When I started with tabletop minis, it took 11 months from buying my toys to being able to play (back in Warhammer days), but it was definitely worth it to get into the habit of playing paying painted.
2) make time This sounds trite, but it's true. If you look at your weekly time there is never anything available, but if you actually want to game / paint, you can schedule it in. One thing that works well for me is to set my alarm half an hour early in the morning, and use that time to paint. You could make that half an hour in the evening instead, whatever works for you.
3) make painting fun If painting us a chore, you'll quickly stop doing it. Luckily the Internet is an amazing thing, with so many resources it is mind-boggling. Use painting projects to challenge yourself - watch a painting video and try out a new technique. Use those techniques to learn smaller techniques (ie last year I set myself a challenge to paint a couple of minis using non-metallic metals. I wasn't very successful, but I now am capable of blending using layered glazes...). Basically, use the new challenges to make it fun. Once you've gotten to a reasonable level Of skill, just watching models come to life can be (it is for me) rewarding enough to keep you going
-und_ed
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Post by celeb on Apr 12, 2017 7:17:30 GMT
I fit game night into my schedule as it would be for a training night in sports. Also, one weekend a month is reserved for tournaments with the option for more. With painting, I use octavius' method. I only play fully painted and when I sent my lists, I have to paint them. I need the pressure to work on painting. Granted, I don't have kids so I do have more hobby time available, but WM/H is my most prioritized hobby of all. For theory and research, I second listening to podcasts when driving to and from work or (If you do that) when you are going for a run. It will still take table time to catch up with long time gamers, but you should be able to get to mid tier play even with not too much time available. To be really competetive you need to invest more time into playing. Usually the long time players will be happy to give you pointers about gameplay, lists and matchups too so don't be afraid to ask on game night.
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Post by Bomma on Apr 12, 2017 8:45:23 GMT
Like anything you need to make a commitment to do it.. but sometimes Life gets in the way.
B.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Apr 12, 2017 11:39:02 GMT
Good advice here. I think ditching useless time-wasters like watching TV or browsing the net without a specific purpose in mind is the top one, not only for hobby but life in general. I also think scheduling is a good way to go gaming-wise. Two pieces of advice I'd like to add are - have a permanent painting set up at home. Sometimes you have a couple of minutes for painting, but when you think how setting everything up will probably take most of that time you just don't even try. I have a desk with all the stuff ready at home and it allows me to use even very short moments to add some paint to something. Guests won't arrive in another 15minutes? Cool, I will paint faces on those guys. Girlfriend will most likely be blocking the bathroom for another 10 minutes ? Great, I will drybrush metals on those warjacks. If you don't have a place at home for a workshop like this (because of kids or cats or whatever), buy a paint station and store it, battle-ready, so starting painting is a matter of seconds. - don't try uphill methods, don't waste time on time consuming techniques you don't need. Decide what your aim is and go for it. There are plenty of quick-painting methods out there that can help you achieve good results within a short time frame. I've done two tutorials with methods that can give you battle-ready models in minutes or entire units in an hour, but there's a ton of such techniques on the net. privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?246071-Quick-painting-experiment&highlight=quick+painting+experimentprivateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?258792-Quick-painting-experiment-vol-2&p=3637471#post3637471
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Post by zerfius on Apr 12, 2017 12:22:50 GMT
Some great advice out there, thank you all. A few follow ups:
-Someone suggested copying the list of my regular opponents and studying those lists specifically. I like this idea in theory. In practice, however, should I be writing down their models while we are playing? This doesn't seem awful, but if there is an easier methodology, I would like to know.
-Setting up a dedicated work space! Yes, this is great. I was wondering how I could get a quick paint session in when it takes me 10 minutes to get set up!
-Where are the best resources for learning about how to paint effectively? Is it the PP videos? Is there a channel on youtube you have found really helpful?
-I do like podcasts, so I will try this. The part I struggle with right now is I get lost easily because my knowledge of the game and the models is so limited currently.
Thanks again all, this has been a great read for me so far!
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Post by pangurban on Apr 12, 2017 14:00:10 GMT
There are tons and tons of painting resources online. Personally I found Ghool's tutorials very helpful (you can look up his youtube channel or his articles on the Hand Cannon Online website). He has a Patreon going too, if you're so inclined, but his public stuff is both very educational and plentiful.
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Post by youlooklikeanail on Apr 12, 2017 16:29:36 GMT
I have a busy job and 2 young kids so I can sympathize with the difficulty of finding time to paint. For me, the big painting-related realization that I had after I had kids was this: there's a trade-off between how much effort you put into painting and how much satisfaction you get out of it, and that trade-off changes as your life circumstances change. Everybody has a rate at which they need to see results or they start to get demotivated, which slows you down, which demotivates you more, and eventually you just grind to a halt.
For me, I need to get a given model finished in about a week, end to end. If it takes longer than that, then I start to lose interest, because my brain doesn't want to wait that long for the satisfaction pay-off of having something finished. Before I had kids, I could put a ton of time into a given model and still get it done in a week, so I was very productive. After, I tried to paint with the same level of detail and attention as before, but it took too long and I got demotivated and stopped being productive. Now, when I plan an army, I figure out up front how I'm going to paint them and think of ways to get a good looking force without taking so long. Some of it is finding efficiencies, or doing things in batches, and some of it is avoiding schemes or details that just take too long to implement. Now I can still get decent looking models done in my one-week-ish timeframe. Dropping the total quality a bit was okay because it meant I could get things done fast enough to still enjoy it, which kept me motivated, and kept me painting.
So that's my advice. If you're busy, figure out how often you need to have new finished models to keep yourself engaged, and then adjust your process to make sure you can complete things that frequently. If it starts to feel like work then maybe you're taking too long and you need to simplify.
On the motivation front, I also like to post pictures of my models to a forum (which I'm good at for some systems but I need to get back to with Warmachine). Posting pics of your work gives you nice feedback from other people engaged with your hobby, and the desire to have a regular supply of new things to show off encourages you to stick with it.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Apr 12, 2017 19:09:54 GMT
Some great advice out there, thank you all. A few follow ups:
This boils down to mimicry, and while that is not too bad in the short term you should try to deepen your understanding. Start by reading detailed descriptions of ancient battles with maps showing movement of units (Marathon, Arbella / Gaugamella, Cannae, Zama, etc.) and books on basic military tactics. Also get an understanding of the differences between attrition and maneuver warfare. Once you get your core understanding you can then start to look at the stats an abilities of the units and relate them to historical analogs - this will give you an idea of how to use certain units in general. *Then* start to compare and contrast the detailed differences between units in the game. In the meantime you need to figure out *your* style - some people innately have a better ability to make certain kinds of armies fight better than others.
After you play a game discuss in detail what you did right and what you did wrong. Don't get emotionally brought down by losses - LEARN FROM THEM! I love it when I lose, because usually I walk away from having learned something in the process.
I have a desk set up in my basement - what you do depends on how much free space you can dedicate to your new hobby.
Practice. Start with metal warjacks that you can strip in Lestoil or your favorite paint stripper and repaint. Otherwise the PP videos are a good starting point.
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145
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Post by kuarnix on Apr 12, 2017 19:34:18 GMT
In terms of hobby time, the best thing is just to chip away at it. I never thought I would have so much painted stuff, but I just consistently sit down for an hour or so every couple of days and work at it. It's amazing how much you can get done if you do it that way.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:56:09 GMT
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 12, 2017 19:56:09 GMT
Start by reading detailed descriptions of ancient battles with maps showing movement of units (Marathon, Arbella / Gaugamella, Cannae, Zama, etc.) and books on basic military tactics. Also get an understanding of the differences between attrition and maneuver warfare. Once you get your core understanding you can then start to look at the stats an abilities of the units and relate them to historical analogs - this will give you an idea of how to use certain units in general. *Then* start to compare and contrast the detailed differences between units in the game. In the meantime you need to figure out *your* style - some people innately have a better ability to make certain kinds of armies fight better than others. Can you give examples of how this has helped you in Warmachine? On face it seems like a complete waste of time. Far better to watch battle reports on Warmachine (while painting!) and get tips from those about good use of models on the board.
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