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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 5, 2018 15:50:31 GMT
So I used to play a little Iron Bull (he gives warjacks wings) back in MkII, but haven't actually played him in MkIII. I'm planning to sub him in for Strak1 next week, just for a change. I was just looking at his card and wondering about some of the changes.
First of all, if he aims then casts Broadside, does he benefit from the aiming bonus for the Broadside shot? Don't have the rule book right now to check the wording and I'm impatient (and lazy).
Other than Kodiak cloudwalls (which I'm not olanning on running), any tips on using him? What's his win condition? I'm not asking for list building tips so much as just general tips (I'm playing in a super casual environment against players who are still learning, so I'm trying to make very few changes to my list at a time to make it easier for them to... "keep their bearings" as it were, and also to help me get good with models rather than just swapping them without building up experience with them).
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 5, 2018 16:04:46 GMT
Aiming bonus only applies during a models activation, so no sadly. And Hark is pretty straight forward. Plays pretty similarly to Slayer spam honestly. Attrition, scenario, can you crack Arm 23 and survive all my jacks?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 5, 2018 16:46:18 GMT
Aiming bonus only applies during a models activation, so no sadly. But Hark is casting the spell during his own activation so does his own extra handcannon shot benefit is my question?
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Post by jonnyboy on Jul 5, 2018 16:56:27 GMT
Aiming bonus only applies during a models activation, so no sadly. But Hark is casting the spell during his own activation so does his own extra handcannon shot benefit is my question? I guess i read too fast there. Yea, aim affects all ranged attack rolls made during a models activation. Never thought about using it for himself, interesting bit there.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 5, 2018 17:14:10 GMT
Yes, it does. It's all ranged attacks made in the activation.
As for general Hark tips;
- Don't go full spam
Whilst our jacks hit really hard, they still have trouble one-rounding an enemy heavy without help. Hark offers nothing in that regard, so you need to have an actual force softening things up for you. It also gives you a better chance in scenario play, as you can have better units and solos. You can pretty easily get 6 jacks and still have room for a decent amount of bells and whistles.
- You don't always need Mobility
SPD6 is great, but even without it you can trample + reposition 10" to get up the board. If you need it, then you need it, but it is half his focus.
- Maybe not Jaws?
Jaws will get you more free models and Behemoth, but I actually ran Hark in AC last time I played him so I could get all the tankers and more useful mechanics. I've played him in WGK too, where the lane-clearing, advanced moves and warcaster safety outweighed the lack of Forge Seers.
- Marauders!
For a focus-strapped caster with a piece-trading game, the ability to absolutely belt something for just the power up focus is great, and it's your cheapest jack to start trades with. When it gets truly fun is smacking something far enough away that when you reposition, they can't just jump up and walk to you. If they have to spend one to shake, one to charge, there is almost no way they're getting the job done.
- Reposition
Given that all Hark will do all game is cast mobility a couple of times, feat, and hand out focus, it can be easy to forget that he actually does anything. Do not forget reposition, like I do... Every. Single. Time.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 5, 2018 17:46:06 GMT
I like the idea of Marauders and Reposition. I'll probably try one and a Kodiak for variety.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 5, 2018 19:18:32 GMT
Yes, it does. It's all ranged attacks made in the activation. As for general Hark tips; - Don't go full spam Whilst our jacks hit really hard, they still have trouble one-rounding an enemy heavy without help. Hark offers nothing in that regard, so you need to have an actual force softening things up for you. It also gives you a better chance in scenario play, as you can have better units and solos. You can pretty easily get 6 jacks and still have room for a decent amount of bells and whistles. - You don't always need Mobility SPD6 is great, but even without it you can trample + reposition 10" to get up the board. If you need it, then you need it, but it is half his focus. - Maybe not Jaws? Jaws will get you more free models and Behemoth, but I actually ran Hark in AC last time I played him so I could get all the tankers and more useful mechanics. I've played him in WGK too, where the lane-clearing, advanced moves and warcaster safety outweighed the lack of Forge Seers. - Marauders! For a focus-strapped caster with a piece-trading game, the ability to absolutely belt something for just the power up focus is great, and it's your cheapest jack to start trades with. When it gets truly fun is smacking something far enough away that when you reposition, they can't just jump up and walk to you. If they have to spend one to shake, one to charge, there is almost no way they're getting the job done. - Reposition Given that all Hark will do all game is cast mobility a couple of times, feat, and hand out focus, it can be easy to forget that he actually does anything. Do not forget reposition, like I do... Every. Single. Time. Your thoughts with Maurauders might have me playing the man again ;-) I played him a bunch at the start of MK3. But I think that was pre forge seers. Getting him back on the table again could be a ton of fun - and the Kodiak Cloud Wall really _IS_ a thing - perhaps even more with Forge seers and Mauraders ;-)
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Post by Netherby on Jul 6, 2018 7:11:20 GMT
There isn't much to him. Basically wants to go first to get good positions then feat turn 2 and push everything forward. He is a lot weaker going second and really needs something to jam so you can hold off on the feat until turn 2. Being forced into feating turn 1 is most of the way to losing the game.
Repo on his 'jacks is basically his best trick, so make sure to use and abuse it.
Never cast Broadsides unless you're really, really sure doing so is going to win you the game. It's almost always a mistake.
Hark is reasonably easy to assassinate. When you give your opponent a wall of ARM 23 'jacks they will start looking very closely at what options they have to assassinate, so don't give them any...
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 6, 2018 7:21:22 GMT
Is he, though? On Feat turn you can have him sat at 16/21 no KD if he has a guardian Rager or something. That's pretty monstrous.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 6, 2018 7:26:50 GMT
I hate to say it, but that's kind of what bothers me about him. I'm looking at his spell card and there's really only only one spell there: a speed buff that costs half his stack. He can't even send two fully loaded jacks in with it; at least not without help. I guess I'll need to play him to see how useful Repo and the feat actually are. But hey, at least my opponent should have a more relaxed game against him than against the Hoff; relax against that guy and you might lose your caster.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 6, 2018 8:21:23 GMT
Is he, though? On Feat turn you can have him sat at 16/21 no KD if he has a guardian Rager or something. That's pretty monstrous. It's surprising how easily some boosted sprays will drop him and he's probably not camping much if anything. That stat line is also assuming they have no way to move him or the 'jack(s) out of touch. Sure, if you have a shield guard and your opponent can't move him out of touch with the 'jacks and they don't have good boostable sprays... He is probably safe on the feat turn. That's a lot of 'if's though! He certainly still dies to things like Nemo feat e-leaps and Denny1 feated sprays. He suffers from having pretty much no focus to camp and a low model count. TK casters or lists that can move stuff around (like Ret) can easily open him up for assassination.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 6, 2018 14:22:09 GMT
Is he, though? On Feat turn you can have him sat at 16/21 no KD if he has a guardian Rager or something. That's pretty monstrous. It's surprising how easily some boosted sprays will drop him and he's probably not camping much if anything. That stat line is also assuming they have no way to move him or the 'jack(s) out of touch. Sure, if you have a shield guard and your opponent can't move him out of touch with the 'jacks and they don't have good boostable sprays... He is probably safe on the feat turn. That's a lot of 'if's though! He certainly still dies to things like Nemo feat e-leaps and Denny1 feated sprays. He suffers from having pretty much no focus to camp and a low model count. TK casters or lists that can move stuff around (like Ret) can easily open him up for assassination.T This. What got me off of Hark was playing into Juris and Haley 2 and watcking the TK madness make for an awful game. That was also when he was playing with Gaston - so 4 dice shots into the back of even an ARM 23 jack will put some dents into it. As others have said, he can be "boring" in the sense that he does similar things game to game. Like Vlad1 that say. But if you want to LEARN jack rules/tactics better (Slams, throws, repo tricks, piece trades) he is PROBABLY an easier caster to master and learn with than say Karchev. That is a weakly held opinion though - perhaps wrong.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 6, 2018 15:54:52 GMT
Well, just had my first MkIII Hark game. It was actually my opponents first game in MkIII, so needless to say he was a bit rusty. I won when Beast 09 reached his caster, but this was only after he got Hark down to just three or four boxes (and he would have won with slightly hotter dice). Harkevich didn't do anything in that game that other casters couldn't have done as well or better, but I was using my Strak list with Hark subbed in and no other changes, so it wasn't exactly built to his strengths.
I have to admit it was relaxing in a way, not having to actually think about how to use my caster because there isn't really anything for him to do other than cast his one little spell. I'll play a few more games with him anyway; then I'll probably either go back to a Sorscha or, if I've finished assembling my conversion by then, Karchev.
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Post by thirdorbital on Jul 6, 2018 19:28:14 GMT
Has anyone actually tried the "Pacific Rim" build with 2x Viktor and a Konquest? Seems like it could be a cute idea for more casual play.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 6, 2018 20:04:28 GMT
No, but honestly I'd go with Victor Conquest Behemoth and have a few more things running around.
There's the potential for lols with the Kharfic Rim though.
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