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Post by Sarcastastic on Apr 11, 2017 4:22:48 GMT
Since I was eyeing up the Trolls army box that's coming out, I thought I'd do a little try before you buy with Gunnbjorn and Dozer. I've had only one game so far with them, but liked what they bring to the table. I tried something silly by bringing Rok with him because I thought Kill Shot on the spray could be interesting. Turns out that Guided Fire landed me 3 crit freezes, one of which secured me the game allowing me to pound Gaspy3 into the dirt.
What sort of things do you folks like to bring with him? I assume he goes really nicely in PoD, but I really like the idea of bringing Highwaymen or Bushwhackers with him as they both love smite, and I just enjoy both units.
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Post by marwa on Apr 11, 2017 4:55:39 GMT
I have been thinking about Gunnbjorn list as a second list to my Doomshaper 2 - and so far I would like to bring something like this:
System: Hordes
Faction: Trollbloods
Caster: 1 / 1
Points: 75 / 75
Gunnbjorn (Captain Gunnbjorn) -28
- Dozer & Smig 18
- Mountain King 36
- Dire Troll Bomber 19
- Trollkin Runebearer 4
Northkin Fire Eaters 7
Northkin Fire Eaters 7
Troll Whelps 4
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (Leader and 3) 6
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew 2
It is not originally my list, but I really like it. I hope that I can test it really soon.
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Post by Trollock on Apr 11, 2017 6:26:35 GMT
Both Fire Eaters and Highwaymen are excellent options for him for sure. It is just that playing without them (in PoD) allows you to run the stone smoothly. Also you are missing out on 12 free points. Fire eaters are a bargain at 14 points for 6, but at 26 points? Not so much. Sniped Highwaymen with access to the feat and a wall if needed also work like a proper ranged unit. But at 27 points? I think that when the Northkin theme arrives, FEs will be a good option again. When the shooty theme arrives, Highwaymen and Sluggers will see play again. Before that? Not so much... In the "Trollocks random lists thread" i posted a list with Gunnbjorn that focuses on the interaction between the EBDT and the wall. I played that yesterday n to an all melee Makeda 1 army and it was absolutely BRUTAL, and really fun. It is a different list from what i usually see with Gunnbjorn. It focuses on getting in the opponents face with really hard to kill beasts, but still has a bit of shooting. Skorne sis NOT like the DEF 14 ARM 22 EBDTs that were near a swamp troll with animus and could spawn whelps for an effective DEF of 17 against them if they wanted to go in from the front. D&S also seem brilliant with him, especially in this list. They trample 8", shoot 18", can scatter op to 6" and then there is another 2" of blast radius for a total threat of 32". Sure that is unlikely to happen, but i went second and killed Orin, a Willbreaker and a Beasthandler on my first turn just by scattering a blast towards their army. Very solid stuff. Basically, his list out threatens me a LOT in melee, but it didnt matter, since he couldnt kill anything significant without losing much more than he killed. In the end he killed my swamp troll (who ran to block a lane) and one EBDT (with a charge from the hydra), but then i had wiped him off the board, scored 5 CP and taken his caster down to 1 HP. I even had a very possible drag lane on him on the turn before, but i didnt think it was worth it, since he was camping 5 (but with 1 HP) and i couldnt headbut him with the swamp troll since he already had 2 fury on him since last turn. Anyway, check the list out. It was really fun and aggressive  |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 11, 2017 13:32:46 GMT
So anything that out-threats Doomy 2 is something that Gunny can frustrate? Sounds like a pairing to me.
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Post by trollsareblue on Apr 11, 2017 20:49:43 GMT
Don't feel compelled to shackle yourself to a theme. If you wanna play with Highwaymen or FEs, do so. I ran a pretty successful Gunny list that included the war wagon, D&S, bomber, and Fenns. Consider the themes a tool, not a requirement.
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Post by Trollock on Apr 11, 2017 21:06:24 GMT
We have all played non-theme lists successfully in the past, because there were no themes to play. Competing against a meta where it is more and more common for lists to have 15 or even 20 points more than you have is an uphill battle to say the least. I am not saying it is a good thing, but it is the situation we have to live with now. PP decided that it was fine to give really substantial rewards for playing in theme, rather than making it mostly a fluff-thing. I do not think it will be a big issue in a year or so, when every one has plenty of theme lists to chose from, but the transition period to get there can be rough if you want to play certain models that do not appear in a theme force.
I think Rök is a prime example. He is REALLY good with Doomy 2. He is Bat shit bonkers bananas good. He costs 21 points, but that is totally fine. When you have to forgo 12 free points though, he costs 33 points effectively. You could basically play a list that had the exact same things and then add either Rök or a MK/GK. I mean, come on. What list do you think will do better? The one with the really good heavy, or the one with an F-ing gargantuan?
As i said, i do not really approve of the direction PP went with theme forces, but we have to deal with it now. If you were already going to play beast heavy, PoD will be the better choice. The further away you get from what fits in a theme though, the less the opportunity cost becomes, because you get a vastly different list that can handle different things. Just adding in one model/unit that breaks theme though will really be tough on your lists performance. So, if you are going to play FEs, id make sure to play HWMs to, since then you end up with a list that can handle different things than the "standard" PoD lists do.
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Post by radamanthys on Apr 12, 2017 9:04:53 GMT
This is my last list with Gunny War Room Army Trollblood - Gunnbjorn 75p. Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 73 / 75 Army Captain Gunnbjorn - WB: +28 - Mountain King - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 - Dozer & Smigg - PC: 18 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 Northkin Shaman - PC: 0 Northkin Shaman - PC: 0 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 Trollkin Runeshapers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 |
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Post by Trollock on Apr 12, 2017 11:13:32 GMT
That list needs whelps too. Any opponent worth their salt will recognize that plinking the MK to give you free whelps is a mistake, and the list will run hot on fury most rounds. Also, the Runebearer is really nice to allow Gunny to utilize his great spells. I would go Janissa (for shooting protection where it is needed), Whelps (for fury management early game) and Runebearer (for the ability to use more spells) as the free solos.
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Post by radamanthys on Apr 12, 2017 11:27:16 GMT
Thanks for the feedback Trollock
War Room Army
Trollblood - Gunnbjorn 75p. (copy)
Theme: The Power of Dhunia
3 / 3 Free Cards 73 / 75 Army
Captain Gunnbjorn - WB: +28
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0
- Mountain King - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
- Dozer & Smigg - PC: 18
- Troll Axer - PC: 10
Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0
Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
Trollkin Runeshapers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9
THEME: The Power of Dhunia
---
GENERATED : 04/12/2017 13:26:33
BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by trollsareblue on Apr 12, 2017 19:02:09 GMT
We have all played non-theme lists successfully in the past, because there were no themes to play. Competing against a meta where it is more and more common for lists to have 15 or even 20 points more than you have is an uphill battle to say the least. I am not saying it is a good thing, but it is the situation we have to live with now. PP decided that it was fine to give really substantial rewards for playing in theme, rather than making it mostly a fluff-thing. I do not think it will be a big issue in a year or so, when every one has plenty of theme lists to chose from, but the transition period to get there can be rough if you want to play certain models that do not appear in a theme force. I think Rök is a prime example. He is REALLY good with Doomy 2. He is Bat shit bonkers bananas good. He costs 21 points, but that is totally fine. When you have to forgo 12 free points though, he costs 33 points effectively. You could basically play a list that had the exact same things and then add either Rök or a MK/GK. I mean, come on. What list do you think will do better? The one with the really good heavy, or the one with an F-ing gargantuan? As i said, i do not really approve of the direction PP went with theme forces, but we have to deal with it now. If you were already going to play beast heavy, PoD will be the better choice. The further away you get from what fits in a theme though, the less the opportunity cost becomes, because you get a vastly different list that can handle different things. Just adding in one model/unit that breaks theme though will really be tough on your lists performance. So, if you are going to play FEs, id make sure to play HWMs to, since then you end up with a list that can handle different things than the "standard" PoD lists do. I see this thinking all the time and I completely disagree. How often do you dig around looking for something to spend those extra 4 points on? I'm willing to bet shaman sold like mad just because of that problem. You don't pay more for something because it isn't in theme. Good models don't suddenly become less valuable because you are down a 4 point solo. Make a list and see if a theme makes that list better. If it doesn't, then who cares? Play with what you came up with. I'm going to say right now that having Rok in a Doomy2 list is more valuable than some junk solos. Look at the top three players at Adepticon. One them solely used themes, one of them used no themes, and the other split. It isn't as much a no brainer as people are presenting it to be. I really wish PP hadn't bothered with themes this edition. It always locks people's thinking into a set pattern. You end up with virtually the same lists, over and over again because of it. |
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206 
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Post by skurkious on Apr 19, 2017 20:39:29 GMT
At the end of the day, I firmly believe that a player's comfort level and experience with a certain set of models will overcome most shortcomings a list may have points wise. Obviously it can still be a bit of an uphill battle if you solely pick models because you like them but I really think this game is balanced enough that strategy and a cool head can make a supreme difference in tournament games(pressure situations). If you're playing casual then who the hell cares! Play what you like!
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Post by lofton on Apr 21, 2017 11:43:58 GMT
The problem trollsareblue is that there a plenty of themes like legions oracles where you are getting 4 very useful solos that aren't just filler. I dislike this whole theme force world because it is restricting and that's where min maxing will take over creativity. In most cases it is smarter to play in theme, there are a lot of good themes. However, if you are just tossing solos in without a plan or a use then of course it's silly. Our solos such as janissa, runebearer, and shamans do serve a purpose and imo don't fall into the filler for the sake of filler category. Other themes I would agree with you PoD not so much. Don't get me wrong I wish there were no free points I also want the creativity back but this is the world we're in.
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