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Post by sand20go on Jun 20, 2018 21:09:19 GMT
So obviously the 12-inch tactician bubble is huge. Almost every game my opponent tries to say "you can't do that" and then I get to say "Yes I can". Then they say "How big is the bubble?" "12 inches". Yup, keep bad off-color jokes to yourself.
But how are people using the orders? Given that I usually use the shocktroopers to screen the demos I am not finding a lot of use for pathfinder. Tough is great but again, not used that often. But I am getting a TON of use out of retailatory strike.
Any trends you are seeing so far?
(Yes, I really wish he kept vet leadership because there is a BIG difference in the WM/H curve between MAT 7 and MAT 8) (I am also finding Dragos more "situational" He has been getting shot off the board lately because people know that is a way to shut down band of brothers and vengeance. Plus he is only "so so" in my Vlad2 list since I can't feat on him.)
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 20, 2018 22:20:35 GMT
I've been really contemplating Atanas (and Dragos). They are both huge point sinks and from my experience 10% of the time they are amazing fantastic pieces the other 90% they are mediocre. Dragos less so mediocre because IF he survives he can put work in.
Atanas on the other hand... Tough is nice, but i have yet to have it come in handy all that often with Irusk1. Relentless charge similar deal, pathfinder is relatively easy to hand out with both Irusk 1/2. Retaliatory strike has pulled it's weight a couple times, finishing off a Proteus on it's first swing! But that was after a striker tanker and bombadiers volley.
Tactician is interesting, I definitely prefer it over veteran leader. But again limited use case I've found. With 3 units trying to contest a board I've found it less and less useful. But when you need it, you need it badly.
My other problem with atanas is... He is squishy. It's been said plenty, but Arm 16, 8 boxes is not too hard to chew through. He is a high value target for the enemy, so I've been keeping him back. Just so, he is usually out of range for charges, getting work done.
Dragos had a similar issue, but can hide behind his unit and sanguine bond.
I've really only played AK into ossrum gun bunnies and a variety of legion lists. I'm not the best player, but both of these have been a struggle.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 21, 2018 6:49:38 GMT
Basically Retaliatory Strike is his best order...
Which is of course best on Vlad2 feated unit of Dragos Demo Corps. But it's not useless on Shocks either.
The other orders aren't great. But it gives you a source of pathfinder that counts towards theme points. Tough on small units of multi-wound models isn't that useful, but at least it can be steady tough. I see it more of a 'well the other two orders aren't going to do anything, so I guess I will use this one' kinda thing.
I'm not sure how worth it is to take him, it's kinda a lot of points. Still need to figure out what lists he actually pulls his weight in...
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 21, 2018 10:36:36 GMT
Basically Retaliatory Strike is his best order... Which is of course best on Vlad2 feated unit of Dragos Demo Corps. But it's not useless on Shocks either. The other orders aren't great. But it gives you a source of pathfinder that counts towards theme points. Tough on small units of multi-wound models isn't that useful, but at least it can be steady tough. I see it more of a 'well the other two orders aren't going to do anything, so I guess I will use this one' kinda thing. I'm not sure how worth it is to take him, it's kinda a lot of points. Still need to figure out what lists he actually pulls his weight in... how do you feel about tactician?
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Post by Netherby on Jun 21, 2018 12:46:20 GMT
Honestly it's not that useful. Sure, it means you have to think less about positioning and streamlines some order of activations. But we are dealing with pretty small model count lists, it's not that big of a saviour. You need to be getting more of out of the piece than just tactician is what I'm saying.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 21, 2018 12:58:13 GMT
Unless you have a specific need for one of his battle plans, don't waste the points.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 21, 2018 13:03:17 GMT
Tactician seems great for screening your Demo Corp with Shocktroopers on the approach. I was bewildered during CID by people complaining about demo Corp being too squishy to guns, and then when you read their reports they were not actually using the things available to mitigate it. 'don't make me think, I just want more armour so I can mindlessly facetank the world, herp de derp!'
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Post by Netherby on Jun 21, 2018 13:09:31 GMT
Like I said, it streamlines activation orders. But you don't actually need tactician to screen. Bombardiers already have Arcing Fire. It let's you do some cute counter charges. You can try to live the dream of leap frogging shocks in front of something after it charges. There is maybe some potential to trigger quick work on Bombardiers then screen them.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 21, 2018 13:19:11 GMT
Like I said, it streamlines activation orders. But you don't actually need tactician to screen. Bombardiers already have Arcing Fire. It let's you do some cute counter charges. You can try to live the dream of leap frogging shocks in front of something after it charges. There is maybe some potential to trigger quick work on Bombardiers then screen them. It also stops your Demo Corp being shot as there are Shocktroopers blocking LoS to them
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 21, 2018 13:27:52 GMT
Your shocktroopers already do that
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 21, 2018 13:42:54 GMT
Your shocktroopers already do that Lets your demo-corp charge through them first though. Otherwise anything that jams your Shocktroopers will make you super sad, as they are also jamming your demo corp.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 21, 2018 13:59:02 GMT
There is no reason no to take Atanas. His unit is 3.5pt per mow model. Demos are 2.6-2.8pt, shocks/bombers are 3.2pt. So you get 2 mow models that do a whole bunch on top of being your usual mows that hit face. And you pay about 1pt extra for the battleplan+tactician.
Kovniks can be a point sink, support mercs also can, but Atanas is always useful because of his abilities not requiring an action.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 21, 2018 14:17:31 GMT
There is no reason no to take Atanas. His unit is 3.5pt per mow model. Demos are 2.6-2.8pt, shocks/bombers are 3.2pt. So you get 2 mow models that do a whole bunch on top of being your usual mows that hit face. And you pay about 1pt extra for the battleplan+tactician. Kovniks can be a point sink, support mercs also can, but Atanas is always useful because of his abilities not requiring an action. +1/2 here. I have found myself shooting that hand cannon a BUNCH. My main issue is that I have to play him forward of where I would like him to be to ensure I keep a unit member within 9 inches of him since 'run and you are done" meaning most of the time he needs to waddle 4 and then order. One wrinkle I did last game was Kovnik HIM (and the bearer) to ensure I could get the order off and shoot a pesky solo that was in my charge lane.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 21, 2018 15:00:03 GMT
What is a Kovnik actually DOING to speed up a unit, that demands he can't do anything else (not even move as fast as the unit he's speeding up)? Waving them forwards with his hands REALLY HARD?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 21, 2018 15:03:32 GMT
What is a Kovnik actually DOING to speed up a unit, that demands he can't do anything else (not even move as fast as the unit he's speeding up)? Waving them forwards with his hands REALLY HARD? If the Kovnik uses Desperate Pace on Atanas he should be RFPd, as he is immediately demoted for yelling at a superior
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