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Post by thematsjo on Jun 19, 2018 19:10:19 GMT
It seems most of us agree that there's something wrong with Assault Kommandos. They don't really fit into any of the existing themes, they don't have enough support to do their own thing, and they're just kind of bad overall. In a game with more heavy armor than perhaps ever before the Kommandos seems to lack a purpose, and I think you can argue they're not very good at dealing with most infantry at their cost either. If you were PP, what kind of approach would you take to try and make them more viable and, thus, played?
Me, I'd do three things. First I'd up their availability. Themes are the way of the future, and currently they're only allowed in WGK. This is okay, but they don't seem like models that wouldn't fit in with Armored Corps or Jaws of the Wolf. Alternatively, I like the idea of giving them some kind of Special Issue rule that lets you field one unit of AKs with either version of Strakhov, ignoring FA and Theme limitations. Shouldn't he be able to bring an elite cadre anyway?
Second, I think Prowl makes a lot of sense for AKs. They're fighting in trenches with a lot of gas clouds but their Assault leaves them completely hosed against retaliation. Running into self-made gas clouds seems like it would make a lot of sense and bump them up quite significantly. Speaking of gas, I really think Strangle Gas should do 1 damage to models that end their activation in it in addition to its current effects. It makes thematic sense and lets AKs do their job of forcing enemies out of foxholes and trenches!
Third, they could really do with a Command Attachment. I like giving them a two-model CA for 4 points; an Officer and a Grenadier.
The Officer has elite stats, Granted: Fusillade and the Gas Blanket Minifeat. The Grenadier has Assault, a trench sword and a 10" grenade launcher with Strangle Gas, Rust and Acid Bomb firing options (but no shield). Fusillade: Three AKs can perform a CRA to generate a Covering Fire template completely within their Carbines' RNGs and their LOS (this can put the opponent in a double-bind where they need to move, but can't charge you because they'd have to go through the Covering Fire template). Gas Blanket: This turn, instead of rolling to attack with attacks that can generate a gas effect cloud, models in the unit can choose to place the cloud anywhere completely within 5" of them. In addition, they get Reposition 3" this turn.
Those are some of my ideas coming off the top of my head. What do you think? Do you have any wonderful ideas? Do AKs even need the help?
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 19, 2018 19:17:07 GMT
We know for a fact that they are getting a UA, as it was spoiled in one of the templates in the back of the forces book. I’m hoping it will be this year’s Christmas model.
I love the idea of allowing them in theme with any Strakhov list, but I may be biased because I pretty much always play Strakhov.
Fortuantely, PP seems to have backed away from the idea of changing immunities, so we don’t have to worry about them taking that nerfbat to the face.
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Post by auraco on Jun 19, 2018 19:47:34 GMT
I think the worst issue with the assault kommandoes at the momment is that they don't do much, they were not a popular choice before the theme force dump and the theme really screwed them, they are available in only one theme, but they don't count toward free points or theme benefits in any way (they don't even provide an advance move if taken). I think the easiest way to fix them would simply be to make them winterguard models, they would start counting toward free points in WGK, allow an advance move on a jack and they would be sac pawn target for our casters. More than that it would allow joe to affect them with his speeches, which would make them playable considering that they currently feel way overcosted for what they bring to the table. I'd be totally ok with them losing brutal charge if the +4 str speech proves to be too much buff stacking. That would be a good start to fixing them before even considering a CA. As for the CA I'm expecthing it to be this year's chrismas model, since there's been rumors about it for quite a while now and I have no idea in which other CID it would fit since everyone is expecting Wolves of winter to be our next CID (but even that's going to be in a while). As for the CA I think just one dude with the same equipement as the rest of the unit would make sense, a banner feels out of place on kommandoes and the flammers already fill the role of alternate weapons. As for the abilities I'd say Granted: Hunter, the commandoes are describe as an answer to trenchers, at the moment they really don't do their job properly having a hard time shooting anything trencher and being outthreathed by trencher infantry in melee. Tactic: Pathfinder, come on these guys are kommandoes, they should know how to navigate terrain. Mini Feat: Mission objective, it just feels right on these guys He could be 5 points, he brings a lot to the unit, but is just a single guy, it would also be in competition with mortar as free stuff to take if they do make the assault kommandoes winterguard models. I don't think just going by thematsjo idea would be enough to make them worth taking, mostly because they never cound for free points in theme or provide any theme benefits.
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Post by bearstronaut on Jun 19, 2018 21:09:52 GMT
I don't agree with making them count as Winter Guard models since very simply they're /not/ Winter Guard. Even if the argument is lore not game balance, it's just not a change that PP would ever implement.
The biggest hope AKs get is their own theme force. I think there's plenty of opportunity for that already, just make a Black Ops theme with AKs, Kayazys, Widowmakers etc. Apparently we hijacked a bunch of Crucible Guard tech in the most recent Acts of War as well, so there's plenty of opportunity for growth.
If I had to try to make them work with what we have now (so no speculation on new models) it would be this:
Cost reduced to 9/14 Loses Shield Wall +1 DEF Gain Carapace Gain Pathfinder Make them available in Jaws
If I had to design a CA for them:
Typical Officer upgraded statline Experimental Grenade Launcher: RNG 10 AOE 3 POW 10 Attack Types: Strangle Gas Alchemical Accelerant (Seen on CG Light jack, no damage everything hit takes Oil)
Arcing Fire Special Rule Targeting Flare Special Rule
Trench Sword: As seen on Strakhov2 Kommandos
Granted: Take Down Tactics: Hunter Mini-Feat: Stealth
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 19, 2018 21:10:46 GMT
Consider this my obligatory "Make them Winter Guard" plea
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Post by Netherby on Jun 20, 2018 5:31:16 GMT
They are only in WGK because PP realised that every model has to be allowed in at least one theme. The fact that they didn't bother to make them count towards anything for the theme is a kick in the donglies. But it means that they aren't serious about them being a playable model at this point in time.
Given the CID cycle time frame, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything either...
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jun 20, 2018 9:24:51 GMT
First thing is they need to lose Shield Wall as we have pikemen and shock troopers that do it better.
Some things they could gain
Wall of Steel, better Def, better Rat, have there guns do both in one shot the chocking gas and the pow 10 maybe (I found that when I played them I needed about 2 or 3 guys to get one gas effect out and 2 or 3 guys to get a pow 10 to land on the target, so that was 4 to 6 guys for 1 target)
Here is an off the wall idea that will not happen but gives them a place, instead of the gas bomb just removing tough change it to any model in the gas effect when boxed are removed from play
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 20, 2018 10:12:06 GMT
I'm of the opinion that they need a complete redesign. As it stands they have no point of difference over anything else in Khador.
They also have nothing they're actually good at.
I'd like to see them be unique within Khador, at least, so I'd like them to focus on mobility. Advance Deploy and Reposition would be a great combo, allowing them to move fast in shield wall, a little bit of shoot and scoot, and so on.
Even then, though, they are just too expensive and weak. They should be in Legion of Steel, too, where there is no competition for the shooting slot. I'd have them count towards points in theme too
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Post by auraco on Jun 20, 2018 12:10:37 GMT
Yeah at the moment they are very expansive for infantry that has mid mat and rat, low pow and bad defensive stats. I have no clue what their role is suppose to be... They can't attack anything with good defensive stats and are to expansive to try to take on tarpit. Add that they do absolutely nothing for our theme forces and it's no wonder people don't take them.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 20, 2018 12:13:29 GMT
1. They count for theme pt bonus. 2. They get a viable melee to complement good ranged component of wg.
Since we know they get gunner it can be a combination of: A trencher commandos minifeat Everyone gets AP rounds minifeat Prey Gas ammunition that applies Poison on melee attacks Anatomical precision
Another option would be to rework them into cloud dudes like the Cryx pirates that shoot+cloud.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 20, 2018 17:33:42 GMT
I would really love it if the AKs would turn into the Trencher's foil. It makes total fluffy sense (AKs were formed for Trench Combat). You could either give them Prey or more Sprays to counter the Dig In, or Flare Grenades to actually shoot pass the Smoke Clouds.
I mean, they don't have to Hard Counter them, just make engagements with them interesting.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 20, 2018 17:38:53 GMT
Just throwing this out: what if they were kept the same but given Ambush?
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 20, 2018 17:46:24 GMT
Just throwing this out: what if they were kept the same but given Ambush? Then why ever bring Kossites?
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 20, 2018 17:47:15 GMT
The problem is they barely do the job they are specifically designed to do: kick the shit out of trenchers.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 20, 2018 18:19:14 GMT
Just throwing this out: what if they were kept the same but given Ambush? Then why ever bring Kossites? Kossites are not in Winter Guard Kommand, and PP is more than happy to release new units with overlapping roles as long as they don't overlap in Theme Forces. (love it or hate it)
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