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Post by Trollock on Oct 9, 2018 20:27:35 GMT
streetpizzaThanks for the input! For some reason i had thought that B&C had vengeance naturally. oops
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 10, 2018 0:16:20 GMT
I he stays as is I'd probably use LotF instead of double champion. You might be corpse starved though going into a construct heavy list. The well isn't really a reliable source of meat.
The more I look at the lists the more I think I'd prefer haruspex over the whitemane as well. Like you said in the other thread death march is already a damn good source of accuracy and she makes the ambushing unit into monsters.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 10, 2018 0:55:18 GMT
grayle, I think, would do better in Wild Hunt, but I like ravagers and blood trackers. If you can get them to pack in a bit to stay out of the tracker's throw range and the wolf rider's charge range, the ravagers will clean house.
Also, have you thought of using Morvhana? Her synergy with the ravagers is nasty, even on feat since they can not only see through forests but are not affected by them ^-^
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Post by Trollock on Oct 10, 2018 2:50:51 GMT
grayle, I think, would do better in Wild Hunt, but I like ravagers and blood trackers. If you can get them to pack in a bit to stay out of the tracker's throw range and the wolf rider's charge range, the ravagers will clean house. Also, have you thought of using Morvhana? Her synergy with the ravagers is nasty, even on feat since they can not only see through forests but are not affected by them ^-^ I surely have thought about morvahna, though during CID i played her in wild hunt. As i mentioned though ill play EVERY caster in DH in alphabetical order, so ill get to Morvahna in good time About Grayle in wild hunt though. Are you sure he is better there? I mean he SHOULD be better there, but the models in WH have not been through CID yet and are pretty damned bad. Giving them tactician isnt a super strong benefit either. Im not at all sure that Grayle is actually stronger there before a WH CID has taken place...
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Post by redcathal on Oct 10, 2018 9:38:15 GMT
First Draft for Grayle: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j5BmDmDmR5imUmUmSmF5q4_mj5wmTCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Grayle 1] Grayle the Farstrider [+29] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Tharn Blood Shaman [5] Tharn Ravager White Mane [5] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Bríghid & Caul [7] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [0(4)] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] Well of Orboros [12] What do you think? Am i missing something obvious? Think Ravagers really want the no knockdown of hunter's grace So for minimal changes I would maybe drop the whitemane for the Ravager Shaman Personally I think Grayle wants more bodies for the feat so I'm be tempted to try: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j5BmK4I4BmR2Q54545imF5qmj5wmj5wCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Grayle 1] Grayle the Farstrider [+29] - Ghetorix [19] - Gnarlhorn Satyr [12] - Gorax Rager [7] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Feralgeist [2] Tharn Ravager Shaman [0(5)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [0(5)] Tharn Ravager White Mane [5] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] My theory on this is that while there are plenty of good storm rager targets in theme like LotF and the wolf rider champ people are forgetting that Grayle outclasses them in number of attacks he can buy. He goes up to mat 9 pow 12 WM with the possibility for a pow 16 WM combo strike. Also divine inspiration gets better the more dice there are. It also increases his survivability with the +2 arm. If the list has knockdown tech then put up earth's blessing on him from the Gnarlhorn and if not put up Spiny Growth for your 15/20 stealthed warlock. Alternatively a ravager chieftan is Mat 9 Pow 17 charge with overtake isn't bad...
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Post by Trollock on Oct 10, 2018 10:52:40 GMT
redcathalI bring in the shaman with the well Also, just for the record, divine inspiration gets WORSE the more dice you throw each attack. It gets better the more ATTACKS you do
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Post by redcathal on Oct 10, 2018 11:03:35 GMT
Trollock That makes sense, on the dice I was referring to the WM damage
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Post by Trollock on Oct 10, 2018 13:43:15 GMT
Trollock That makes sense, on the dice I was referring to the WM damage Yeah, divine inspiration actually does less if you have weapon master than if you do not. You can think about it this way: if you rolled 100 dice for damage you would roll roughly 350 total on average. If you rolled 101 dice and dropped the lowest you would get roughly the same results, right? Edit: actually, i might be talking out if my ass here... Never mind, unless some one knows for sure? Edit 2: yeah, i accidentally liked my own post lol. Apparently you can do that. Great if you are feeling low i guess...
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Post by Forsaken on Oct 10, 2018 14:36:51 GMT
The only things I might change would be finding a way to add Death Wolves (who Grayle can sprint through for cover) and maybe Gnarlhorn for Earth's Blessing. Grayle can do work but does end up exposed.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 10, 2018 16:05:41 GMT
The only things I might change would be finding a way to add Death Wolves (who Grayle can sprint through for cover) and maybe Gnarlhorn for Earth's Blessing. Grayle can do work but does end up exposed. Haha. Its always easy to add things. What would you remove? The gnarlhorn is easy enough i guess.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 12, 2018 20:18:32 GMT
Did some more fine tuning of my list before playing it.
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
[Grayle 1] Grayle the Farstrider [+29] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [7] Bríghid & Caul [7] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [0(5)] Well of Orboros [12]
I can build the exact same army (with a Ravager Shaman in the actual list rather than brought in by the Well) where i replace the Well with the Spirit cauldron + Lanyssa Ryssyl. I do not know which one is better. The Cauldron variant grants corpses more reliably, and Hunters Mark is a welcome addition for a melee based list, but the Well does some good work on a turn by turn basis, and the additional control Range is never a bad thing, especially if i try to utilize the offensive part of the feat.
I think ill play the Well variant on monday, and it should be enough to fulfill the purpose of this exercise: to get a feel for how "all" casters work in DH.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 13, 2018 9:46:39 GMT
OK, so it turns out the feat did not work quite as i thought. Apparently a model can not move itself if it kills something. I thought my fearals could kill a couple of guys, walk 3# with the feat and kill a few more. Apparently you can only move ANOTHER model when you kill something. I decided to ditch one of the Ferals and bring a Shadowhorn. I desperately want to try that fellow out and havent yet, but it also seems to have a bit of synergy with the feat. Allowing it to walk an extra 3" before activating means you have a 15" threat with the judo-throw, and that is pretty significant. Then i realized i hadnt spent all my warbeast points and re-calibrated the list again, going for the spirit cauldron rather than the well, bringing in the shaman (who would otherwise be summoned by the well) and changed the battle group. A stalker and Gorax to go along with the Shadowhorn was my solution. It also makes for easier order of activation if i need to primal something as i have a non-fighting source for it in the Gorax. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j5B4BmCmJmRmI54mUjXmSmF5q4_mQmj5wCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Grayle 1] Grayle the Farstrider [+29] - Gorax Rager [7] - Shadowhorn Satyr [12] - Warpwolf Stalker [17] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [5] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Bríghid & Caul [7] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5] OK, so ill try not to mess more with the list now before playing it. I sort of promise!
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Post by Trollock on Oct 15, 2018 20:12:25 GMT
Hi guys. I played two games with the list and it went pretty well. Both games were against the same opponent and same list. We basically played a bit, re-racked and played again. He had a new wonky creation he had never played, but hey, im playing Grayle, so its fair, right?
Lists Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
[Grayle 1] Grayle the Farstrider [+29] - Gorax Rager [7] - Shadowhorn Satyr [12] - Warpwolf Stalker [17] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(5)] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Tharn Ravager Shaman [5] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Bríghid & Caul [7] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5]
| Mercenary Army - 71 / 75 points [Theme] Llaelese Resistance
[Crosse 2] Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter [+29] - Freebooter [9] - Nomad [11] - Nomad [11] - Nomad [11] - Nomad [11] - Talon [7] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Anastasia di Bray [3] Gobber Tinker [2] Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4] Major Harrison Gibbs [4] Ragman [4] Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage [0(5)] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(5)]
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My opponent also had Lanyssa in the list, but she is apparently not allowed. She had no effect on the game though.
Setup My opponent has Anastasia and gets to go first as always lol. We play Standoff. The terrain is a building in the middle, a patch of rubble in the west and south zone. A forest in the east zone as well as a hill. The west zone also has a trench and a cloud (the thing in the north part of it). There are two walls on the north side and he places more rubble with his theme benefit.
He deploys his jacks mainly to the west and the cinerators on the east flank.
I deploy my heavies to to gest of the building. The Ravagers go west and the Bloodtrackers go east. The croc pot stays in the middle with both B&C and LotF (who i forgot had AD).
Turn 1 - Mercs
There are many proxied models in the pics. Sorry bout that.
He runs forward.
Turn 1 - Circle I also run forward. Ravagers are sort of passive while the Shadowhorn runs forward in to the rubble. Stalker stays behind it. I get Death March on to my Bloodtrackers and Storm Rager on to Caul. LotF and Caul both stay behind the building. I get sould on to one of them with the croc pot. I leave one bloodtracker sort of back to be able to stab it for good luck with a heavy lol.
Turn 2 - Mercs He becomes SUPER nervous about LotF and the Judo Goat getting to him next round. Gorman tried to blind LotF but missed and scattered to the Gorax. After that he was in panic mode and tried to block off landing zones and prevent my things from getting to his caster. He basically exposes his army to a grand alpha to prevent me landing an assassination (rather than just moving back a bit with the caster). He has allocated focus to the jacks on the east to kill some Bloodtrackers and is camping 0...
Turn 2 - Circle
LotF can shoot his objective and murder him, BUT he has shield guards (the Choir with his spell) who can prevent that. I Can shoot Lanyssa though. If i get an 8 i win, so i just try it and fail. Then LotF punches the Freebooter and nomad a bit and eats Gorman. Caul and my stalker easily clean up the two front heavies (stalker got DI first). The Goats walks up to the Nomad in his zone and throws that at the other nomad and casts his animus. Ravagers charge the thrown nomad and together with the champ they kill it. Bloodtrackers fight the Talon a bit and i ambush in the Bloodweavers to have more contesting models there. I move up Grayle behind the building and camp 2 with dodge up. Gorax blocks off the east nomad from reaching Grayle.
I score 2-0 as well.
The End
He decides things are F-ed up and he has to assassinate. He CAN get the nomad on to Grayle by using the feat for ghostly. First his plan was to toss Grayle with the nomad and kill him with Cinerators, but he is just outside range (phew! that was pure luck...). Basically he has to walk up to grayle and buy 3 attacks, needing 9s to hit, and if he misses one, its over. That fails and we play another game.
Most likely he was screwed already. Attrition is probably not possible. I have a hard time killing ARM 23 Cinerators but i havent touched them yet and i can probably stall them while winning on scenario. He MIGHT not even be able to score his zone this turn, and if he doesnt, i have to clear the west and south zones again (should be very easy) and kill his objective. Maybe next game will be better. He clearly got flustered by the assassination threats.
Setup - Game 2
Same as before on all accounts basically.
Turn 1 - both Again, we do very similar things. I get DM on to B&C rather than the Bloodtrackers though, cause that plan relies on there being front line infantry for them to fight. Vengeance matter very little against these targets. SR goes on LotF.
He pushes up a bit more aggressively this time, and i have to be slightly more passive. I preyed the Talon with the Bloodtrackers, so that ran and hid instead of being up front.
Turn 2 - Mercs He decides to try and use the Choir to screen his stuff. We discover that LotF has Grievous wounds and that he is actually pretty damned dangerous to the Cinerators if he can ignore the shields. They walk up in this silly flower formation to not expose their backs to him in any direction. Im not sure it can actually be done, id have to try it with proxy bases, but at this time we both agree that he cant get in the back of them. Its super fun that i have forced him to play this... exotically lol.
The End I start off my turn thinking about how i can get rid of his stuff in front and reach the gooey center. What happens is that i use the feat to get a couple of key moves off. The Ravagers clear the choir and the Stalker and Caul kill two heavies and the Talon i think. I throw the Freebooter at the Nomad for laughs and stab it to death with the Champion afterwards. LotF can walk with the feat and his normal move to get LoS to the objective. I have to activate the Bloodtrackers first to get them out of the way. They accidentally shoot down the east nomad (who was their new prey after Talon died) and LotF now has a super easy shot to the objective. He sticks it and accidentally assassinates Crosse through 4 camp with an attack to spare after i had done some crippling attrition.
Evaluation Holy moly that LotF is insane! I was very pessimistic to including him but i was WRONG. The Blood shaman makes the stalker murder what ever without Primal even. Sure, i played against what was probably a bad list (he wanted to try the concept of having choired heavies, but his threat ranges are too short) and my opponent didnt play super well, but that felt SUPER strong. Th threat from the Goat and LotF and the Champion were insane and really stifled him. The Stalker is super nasty now with fixed MAT and POW, especially in to these non buffed heavies.
I guess we can check Grayle off the list. He is most definitely playable at the very least in DH!
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 15, 2018 20:24:39 GMT
Those reports really made me smile. Nice to see somebody having the fear of Grayle put in them.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2018 7:19:28 GMT
Those reports really made me smile. Nice to see somebody having the fear of Grayle put in them. Hahaha. Though to be fair it wasnt Grayle he was afraid of but his drinking buddy XD
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