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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 7, 2018 9:31:00 GMT
On a whim yesterday I was putting together 50 point lists and decided to try writing one for Sorscha 2. Back in MkII she was one of my two favourite casters (alongside Strakhov 1).
Then I remembered that she only has 27 WJP, when S1 has 29. Um, what? Then I looked at her spell list and couldn't see anything worth bringing over S1 (other than RFP, but I don't happen to actually need that in my meta). So what does she actually do that S1 doesn't? Let's see, Desperate Pace? Cute, but I don't play Winter Guard. An ARM cracking feat, that's good. Wait, what's this? Freezer? Huh...
Seeing as she doesn't have a reliable feat or spell for freezing people, is there any way to deliberately get some work out of Freezer? Camp focus under Iron Flesh and stand up front with a wardog inviting a heavy to charge you? Sounds like a great way to lose the game.
Does anyone play S2 these days? Have you gotten any use out of Freezer, or is it nothing more than a mild deterrent against assassination attempts (and tuna)?
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 7, 2018 10:33:25 GMT
Yeah, she doesn't see much play in mk3, it seems! I've never got any use out of freezer on any caster, even though Forge Seers and Outriders can sort-of grant it. As you say, I think it's mostly deterrent.
I must admit though, I've been considering S2 AC. I feel that her feat + Strike Tankers is marvelous, IF is always good on Shocks, and Shatterstorm on a Suppression Tanker could do a lot of clearing.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 7, 2018 13:28:58 GMT
Beast-09 has freeze immunity now, so you can put Freezer on it so it'll be a Hyper agressive Shield guard Freezer.
I can imagine ponies in Wolves can get some mileage out of Freezer. Imagine them using Freezer or charge+battle wizard for Freezer and then jam under a protective feat like I1 or V2.
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Post by thematsjo on Jun 7, 2018 13:44:38 GMT
The only serious application I see for it is to try and freeze something without the Shake capability on your own turn and park a Freezer next to that to keep that thing/those things frozen for several turns in a row. In practice I expect it's too janky to make work (you usually want to move around a lot) but you can theoretically lock down a bunch of stuff for an entire game. Off the top of my head I'm not sure if you get the melee defense bonus when you're engaged with a stationary model but I think you do, meaning you get some defensive tech off the trick as well. Even without that, you can use the opponent's models to jam themselves with xD.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474 
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 7, 2018 14:04:37 GMT
I've seen S2's freezer be applicable once when I decided it would be a good idea to send my Vlad2 feat buffed eliminators to jam her (I didn't know she had freezer) ((It was a bad day))
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 7, 2018 17:07:44 GMT
Beast-09 has freeze immunity now, so you can put Freezer on it so it'll be a Hyper agressive Shield guard Freezer. If someone shoots Beast from less than 6" inches away (8 with a spd buff) then that would be perfect. They kinda have to play into your hands for that though. What if you put a defensive buff onto Beast and use him as bait? Too expensive obviously, but maybe if you play it right it will deter them from attacking Beast and give you more of the table? Maybe you can something with S2 and Maddie? So S2 runs up and engages some infantry, but they can't attack her due to maddie? |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 7, 2018 18:20:51 GMT
On a whim yesterday I was putting together 50 point lists and decided to try writing one for Sorscha 2. Back in MkII she was one of my two favourite casters (alongside Strakhov 1). Then I remembered that she only has 27 WJP, when S1 has 29. Um, what? Then I looked at her spell list and couldn't see anything worth bringing over S1 (other than RFP, but I don't happen to actually need that in my meta). So what does she actually do that S1 doesn't? Let's see, Desperate Pace? Cute, but I don't play Winter Guard. An ARM cracking feat, that's good. Wait, what's this? Freezer? Huh... Seeing as she doesn't have a reliable feat or spell for freezing people, is there any way to deliberately get some work out of Freezer? Camp focus under Iron Flesh and stand up front with a wardog inviting a heavy to charge you? Sounds like a great way to lose the game. Does anyone play S2 these days? Have you gotten any use out of Freezer, or is it nothing more than a mild deterrent against assassination attempts (and tuna)? IF. But you also have probably a BETTER personal assassination threat when her than with S1. Cyclone (which has the added benefit of providing a "jam" clear" - 6 BC+2 Charge 9 Reach 2 Or 19 inch non-linear. But critically you then Feat and boost the Attack roll. _IF_ you proc shatter you are looking at 4 dice POW 13 doubled. You then buy a second. That will kill a TON of the ARM 16 and under casters in the game....and transfer over huge amounts of damage to beasts. THe problem for S2 (she needs to be CID'ed) is that she lost Freezing grip. Great spell and even more in any theme that allows you to take Rheinholdt (stealth) and anything capable of reducing def skews. If S1 can control the battle field with that spell while not having to blow her feat....well watch out ;-) The problem is the jack load out with S1 - how do you build it so you are not locked out if they bring too many heavies that threaten too far. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 7, 2018 18:56:25 GMT
But you also have probably a BETTER personal assassination threat when her than with S1. However S1's feat is a huge assassination threat as it allows you to just buy attacks that get the Shatter dice right off the bat rather than hoping for a crit. Plus S1 still has her knockdown spell, which can be an auto-hit if you get close enough, so even post-feat she has more assassination options. |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 7, 2018 19:35:27 GMT
But you also have probably a BETTER personal assassination threat when her than with S1. However S1's feat is a huge assassination threat as it allows you to just buy attacks that get the Shatter dice right off the bat rather than hoping for a crit. Plus S1 still has her knockdown spell, which can be an auto-hit if you get close enough, so even post-feat she has more assassination options. True but Pow 13 MW vs. Pow 13 WM with damage doubled. Too lazy to build a model to figure out which one has greater expected damage as probably not taking either for a while this year as I do the whole Armor Corp + OW2 thing for a while. |
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 7, 2018 20:17:55 GMT
S2 also has the added bonus of being able (and even likely) to kill a significant number of warcasters in a single swing (even through power field), which negates them having several focus points for reduction.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 7, 2018 20:43:05 GMT
S2 also has the added bonus of being able (and even likely) to kill a significant number of warcasters in a single swing (even through power field), which negates them having several focus points for reduction. Seems like the magic number is probably ARM 15. with 4 dice you would be doing average 27 or [(27-15-5)x2]. And spikes happen. Hell, bring Elish and puppet master it ;-) |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 7, 2018 20:51:36 GMT
The only serious application I see for it is to try and freeze something without the Shake capability on your own turn and park a Freezer next to that to keep that thing/those things frozen for several turns in a row. In practice I expect it's too janky to make work (you usually want to move around a lot) but you can theoretically lock down a bunch of stuff for an entire game. Off the top of my head I'm not sure if you get the melee defense bonus when you're engaged with a stationary model but I think you do, meaning you get some defensive tech off the trick as well. Even without that, you can use the opponent's models to jam themselves with xD. That's neat trick and relatively easy to pull off. Take S1, freeze something. Park a Freezer (Beast, Seer, pony) model near, it will never unfreeze (yeah yeah shake effects etc., just break the cortex). Actually we don't even need a Sorscha. Wolves and AK both have means to freeze and put on Freezer without caster. I'm gonna remember this, this will be useful. |
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 8, 2018 14:54:17 GMT
S2 also has the added bonus of being able (and even likely) to kill a significant number of warcasters in a single swing (even through power field), which negates them having several focus points for reduction. Seems like the magic number is probably ARM 15. with 4 dice you would be doing average 27 or [(27-15-5)x2]. And spikes happen. Hell, bring Elish and puppet master it ;-) The times 2 happens before power field. (Power field is the last step in the process) So it's actually (27-15)x2-5 = 19. The odds get significantly worse because you need to critical freeze (approx 33% chance). Eilish brings that up to about 50% with puppet master, though... |
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Post by sand20go on Jun 8, 2018 15:34:50 GMT
Seems like the magic number is probably ARM 15. with 4 dice you would be doing average 27 or [(27-15-5)x2]. And spikes happen. Hell, bring Elish and puppet master it ;-) The times 2 happens before power field. (Power field is the last step in the process) So it's actually (27-15)x2-5 = 19. The odds get significantly worse because you need to critical freeze (approx 33% chance). Eilish Bring that up to about 50% with puppet master, though... THANKS!!! Total brain fart on that. |
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Post by thematsjo on Jun 10, 2018 12:25:42 GMT
Actually we don't even need a Sorscha. Wolves and AK both have means to freeze and put on Freezer without caster. Exactly right. I think most people see Freezer and think "how do I get something to end its activation close to my model without destroying it" while they should be thinking about keeping already frozen things frozen for longer. |
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