|
Post by sand20go on Jun 10, 2018 13:24:03 GMT
The only serious application I see for it is to try and freeze something without the Shake capability on your own turn and park a Freezer next to that to keep that thing/those things frozen for several turns in a row. In practice I expect it's too janky to make work (you usually want to move around a lot) but you can theoretically lock down a bunch of stuff for an entire game. Off the top of my head I'm not sure if you get the melee defense bonus when you're engaged with a stationary model but I think you do, meaning you get some defensive tech off the trick as well. Even without that, you can use the opponent's models to jam themselves with xD. That's neat trick and relatively easy to pull off. Take S1, freeze something. Park a Freezer (Beast, Seer, pony) model near, it will never unfreeze (yeah yeah shake effects etc., just break the cortex). Actually we don't even need a Sorscha. Wolves and AK both have means to freeze and put on Freezer without caster. I'm gonna remember this, this will be useful. That is good - though I am having a hard time thinking of precisely when it might come into play. Perhaps into a list with a jack marshal or two - you could see the benefits of using a pony as a dedicated "freeze you" option. It would be broken (I guess) but I really wish we had access to more than 1 disruptor.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 10, 2018 16:23:37 GMT
I don't get it: how are they frozen forever?
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 10, 2018 17:07:02 GMT
I don't get it: how are they frozen forever? OK Take a HIGH value solo (I don't know, say a Tanker in the mirror or Tarturus in Cryx.) Your Turn1 stationary and, for example park a pony (for example) with Winter wrath next to them. Their Turn 1. A big change in the rule set MK2 to Mk3 (we actually discussed this last night) is that the model DOES activate - it just can't DO much of anything (read the stationary rule). Thus it "ended its activation" within 2 inches of said pony. Stationary applied again. Rinse and repeat. With just the above it is "cute". The bigger thing is whether/if/how to apply in a way that neuters jack/beast builds. I can see it - just don't know if it is effective and I am almost certain you have to go "out of theme" (essentially an old Sorscha's 18 like build with Eyrss, Kell, Ashley, WMM, ect that can scaple out multiple cortexes. You might even grab strike tankers so that you can apply grevious wounds. Even then really hard because those solos are EXTREMELY high value - you can't afford to lose any as you work to control heavies and set up the counter with "cheap" jacks. Something MAYBE like..... conflictchamber.com/#c3201b47f89v2T3W7ml4l48r868H888c8eKhador Army - 75 / 75 points !!! Your army contains pre-release entries. [Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Victor [34] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4] Alten Ashley [6] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7] Kell Bailoch [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] - Battle Mechanik Officer [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13] Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7] Widowmaker Scouts [8] If My math is right we got 16 (20 against Hordes) column specific damage. 3 sources of grevious wounds. A "I am blast immune" Mech officer to help with your squishy but stealthy solos. Only Victor and Doomies to hit hard but that is always the problem for S1. It "FEELS" like you can exert a lot of control here. But (as people will note) your list goes WAY down hill fast the moment you start to loose her high value solos.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 10, 2018 18:21:19 GMT
I was under the impression that you can't re-apply a status effect to a model already under that effect? So the stationary model activates, can't do anything, ends it's activation, then nothing happens because it's already stationary so it can't "become stationary"?
|
|
|
Post by thematsjo on Jun 10, 2018 20:41:51 GMT
I was under the impression that you can't re-apply a status effect to a model already under that effect? So the stationary model activates, can't do anything, ends it's activation, then nothing happens because it's already stationary so it can't "become stationary"? Hmmm, that's a troubling point. Let's put things side by side to try and figure this out. Freezer: "When an enemy model without Immunity: Cold ends its activation within 2" of a model with Freezer, the enemy model becomes stationary for one round." Stationary (Prime rulebook page 61, Stationary Models):: "Some attacks and special rules cause a model to become stationary. While stationary a model does not have a melee range and cannot advance, make special actions, make attacks, cast spells, use feats, be used to channel a spell, or give orders. A stationary model does not engage other models and cannot be engaged by them. As a consequence, a model is never in melee with a stationary model. A melee attack against a stationary model automatically hits. A stationary model has a base DEF of 5." Rule Priority (Prime rulebook page 10, Rule Priority): "Unless otherwise specified, multiple instances of the same effect (that is, effects with the same name) affecting a model are not cumulative. If a model is affected by more than one instance of an effect, the effect does not expire until all instances of the effect expire." In this case, the effect is "stationary." The effects of stationary are not applied twice, but "the effect does not expire until all isntances of the effect expire." Effectively, the model is stationary "twice" but you only apply its effects once following the "not cumulative" (in this case there are not duplicable effects anyway) clause. If stationary were to (for example) halve ARM you would only halve it once, despite the model being under the multiple instances of stationary until some or all instances of it expire. If I understand the English correctly this does work. PS: AHHHH MOTHERLAAAAND!
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 10, 2018 21:08:17 GMT
I don't know know my way around the rulebook well enough to know if there's another relevant rule or not; it might just be my old MkII memories but I thought that you don't "reset the clock" if you hit a model with a duplicate effect. I might have to swing over to the official forums and put in a rule query, unless anyone else has anything relevant to weight in with?
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jun 12, 2018 2:45:01 GMT
OK, folks, why aren’t we talkin more about Sorscha 1 in Armored Korps? I have been thinking abou this for chickenslayer ‘s thread, but I don’t know if it’s spammy enough with Atanas, a Kovnik and Forge Seer in the list. But I like it. War Room Army Khador - Sorscha 1 AK Freezer Fun Theme: Armored Corps 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kommander Sorscha - WJ: +29 - Beast 09 - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 4 Man-O-War Bombardiers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer - PC: 0 Man-O-War Bombardiers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer - PC: 0 Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 4 Grunts: 14 - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - PC: 0 Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 4 Grunts: 14 Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard - Arconovich & Standard Bearer: 7 This somehow fits 28 MOW models in. The Bombadiers really appreciate stationary since...well...enemy models aren’t engaging you when they’re stationary so you’ve just solve a bunch of order of activation issues. Casters caught in Sorscha’s feat range who aren’t steatlhed are screwed. Meanwhile, the Demo Corp are going to just hit like MAC trucks under the feat as well as turn by turn Freezing Grip. The Koldun Lord i offers the freezer jank we’ve been talking about. So, say you’re facing a mirror match with ARM 23 shockies. Sorscha freezes them. Beast run in and threshers, but they don’t all die. Koldun double taps the freezer jank and you’re immune from he counter attack. I like it. I’m having trouble finding flaws or holes in this list except for mass incorporeal.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jun 12, 2018 3:12:11 GMT
ARM 16, Def 12 dies to mass shooting. Really dies to mass shooting. DO you really need Atanas in there since the bombers have pathfinder and, in a pinch, sorscha can hand out boundless. You could grab Saxon and free up some points.
|
|
|
Post by bohemianchops on Jun 12, 2018 7:55:49 GMT
I’ve been looking at S1 pretty hard as an AC option. Between her and Butcher1. I’m planning on only taking a single Demo unit with her which opens me up to bring an answer to the Incorp problem. I find if I’m taking Demos it’s hard to take Arcanovich too, setting up the Retaliatory, Vengeance, initial attack dream is too tempting for me. Plus Tactician can come in useful. A single Kovnik should be enough since the Bombardiers have long enough range to get away with the 4” advance while Demos love the 2” extension.
Khador - Sorscha1 MoW
Theme: Armored Corps 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Sorscha - WJ: +29 - Beast 09 - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4 Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0
Man-O-War Bombardiers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer - PC: 5 Man-O-War Bombardiers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer - PC: 5 Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 4 Grunts: 14 - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - PC: 0 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard - Arconovich & Standard Bearer: 7
THEME: Armored Corps ---
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 12, 2018 8:28:23 GMT
|
|
|
Post by thematsjo on Jun 12, 2018 8:53:11 GMT
That's what I thought. Really opens up some possibilities doesn't it! The language in Mk3 is clear but an explicit example in the text would've been nice for post-Mk2 players. That is hilarious! I picture the rime forming along the model as it moves, slowing the models as it spreads xD. Seems that Freezer has a little more to it than one would initially think.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 13, 2018 6:37:13 GMT
Been thinking some more about this. I guess this is how things go:
1.1 You make an enemy model stationary in your turn. This means the effect wears off at the start of YOUR next turn. 1.2 In the enemy's turn the effect is re-applied thanks to Freezer. Now the effect will wear off at the start of HIS next turn. 2.1 Let's say you don't re-apply it in your next turn. 2.2 At the start of his next turn the effect wears off so he can activate normally and move away or kill your models.
So as I read it Freezer means that they are stationary in your next turn but NOT during their next turn, unless you re-apply it again in your turn. So you don't actually keep something frozen forever simply by parking a model with Freezer next to it, you actually do have to keep manually re-applying Stationary in your turn as well for that, but that's easier because they are easier to hit. Does that make sense?
It sounds to me like the biggest advantage is just having Shatter ready to go in your next turn without having to try to land Stationary from one of your limited sources.
|
|
|
Post by thematsjo on Jun 13, 2018 13:23:33 GMT
So as I read it Freezer means that they are stationary in your next turn but NOT during their next turn, unless you re-apply it again in your turn. So you don't actually keep something frozen forever simply by parking a model with Freezer next to it, you actually do have to keep manually re-applying Stationary in your turn as well for that, but that's easier because they are easier to hit. Does that make sense? It sounds to me like the biggest advantage is just having Shatter ready to go in your next turn without having to try to land Stationary from one of your limited sources. I agree. Suppose you have Sorscha2. She has Critical Freeze on Frostfang as well as Freezer. Critical Freeze - On a critical hit, the model hit becomes stationary for one round unless it has Immunity: Cold. Freezer - An enemy model that ends its activation within 2" of this model becomes stationary for one round unless it has Cold Immunity. On your turn: Sorscha gets a Critical Freeze. The affected enemy model is stationary until the start of your next turn (one round). On their turn: Their stationary model is forced to activate, and it ends its activation within 2"of Sorscha, hence it becomes stationary again for one round (it is affected by BOTH sources of stationary). Because it happened on their turn, they will thaw at the start of their next turn. On your turn: Stationary from the Critical Freeze wears off, stationary from Freezer remains active. At this point you have to figure out if you want to re-apply stationary somehow. If you don't, stationary from Freezer wears off at the end of your turn. On their turn: The enemy model gets to activate as normal. As far as I can tell the chain doesn't persist automatically, you have to re-apply stationary because Freezer wears off before the start of the opponent's next turn. Long way of saying that I think you got it exactly right.
|
|