|
|
Post by harcos on Jun 5, 2018 22:03:25 GMT
Been playing a lot of Horgle recently. Trying to figure out a decent list for what I feel is a good caster. Though any shortcomings with him are likely my fault.
Usually my lists are filled with any old stuff. But since everyone at the local store is practicing for upcoming tournaments, I need to do better if I'm to present my opponent with a decent practice game.
The wagon has never let me down. Getting a decent feat turn is usually the issue. Horgle is, more often then not, to far back to get a good portion of enemy models in control range. Fire eaters have killed each other most games (box cars on damage, every game...), and getting continuous fire on enemy models has been iffy. The idea originally was to swap Firestarter on the bombers as they throw out AoE, but that hasn't panned out.
What should I change in my lists? Or what tactics should I utilize?
- New army-
Theme: Kriel Company
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Horgle, the Anvil - WB: +29
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: FREE
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
- Pyre Troll - PC: 8
- Pyre Troll - PC: 8
War Wagon - PC: 16
Braylen Wanderheart, Trollkin Outlaw - PC: FREE
Bog Trog Mist Speaker - PC: 4
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
Thumper Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: FREE
Trollkin Highwaymen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
Trollkin Highwaymen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
Trollkin Sluggers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 10
Played the following last game.
-previous list-
Theme: Kriel Company
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Horgle, the Anvil - WB: +29
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 5
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
War Wagon - PC: 16
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Thumper Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: FREE
Thumper Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: FREE
|
|
ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244 
|
Post by ravenfire on Jun 6, 2018 6:36:35 GMT
if you have a mountain king. you can swap out 2 bombers and put in a mountain king. Arm 23 king is hard to remove and he has a decent range game to put stuff on fire.
But without knowing your meta or your models. Giving advice is hard.
|
|
cuberic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
|
Post by cuberic on Jun 6, 2018 16:46:19 GMT
Use the feat to kill multi wound models as they are more likely to stay on fire. Fire eaters will kill single wound infantry and not exactly do well to light other models on fire. Horgle is not a control caster, so a feat for attrition, or scalpel out those key heavies. Your first list the pyre trolls are unnecessary. Horgle, the runebearer, or bomber can set enough things on fire, and way better at that job than a pyre troll. Also no stone scribe on the stone is sad times. Your second list has huge fury issues with 3 bombers outside of feat turn. It is not playing to horgles strengths which are a lot of steady no knock down infantry. Some thoughts on your model choices: For the same points you can change the Highwaymen to Northkin raiders, who are just better when you don't have snipe. While being free I don't see the weapon crews as being able to really able to contribute outside of the feat turn. Here is ranged list in the same idea that you're trying to go with your first list conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0DgL0r0rjq6G6R0l0mj5j5i_hUTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company [Horgle 2] Horgle, the Anvil [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [0(3)] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Pyg Lookouts (min) [7] Trollkin War Wagon [16] Then here is a melee list, that will give Horgle a chance to not be fury starved. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0GgLjnjn0hjq6G2Qj20li-j5j5j3Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Horgle 2] Horgle, the Anvil [+29] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Feralgeist [2] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18] |
|
|
|
Post by harcos on Jun 7, 2018 1:30:04 GMT
Sadly I do not have any brawlers or northkin stuff, yet. Planning on getting some later this year. ($85 a box... ;_; )
Thank you for the advice though. Will drop the pyers and the weapon crews. Other than the raiders, I can run the first list.
Will have to try a few game with Horgle and the mountain king, just to see what i can get out of them.
Thank you!
|
|
ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
|
Post by ravenfire on Jun 7, 2018 6:08:47 GMT
If your opponent does not mind, you can always proxy some stuff to see if it is what you like to play and then buy it, insteadof buying and finding out
|
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jun 7, 2018 6:11:27 GMT
Ill do a more general analysis of your lists. List 1- Bomber is SUPER good for Horgle. Thumbs up there!
- Pyres are surprisingly bad with him imo. You can already light up the things you need to light up for the feat, and you do not have any fire eaters to light up with the Pyre. All by itself the pyr is a pretty bad beast. Now KC has a poor selection of beasts to chose from and you need to fill up your beast points, but i would use basically anything other than Pyre trolls. Even a Blitzer i think, and that is a terrible beast
 - War Wagon is a good piece for Horgle. It likes the feat and ARM 23 is a thing.
- The Mist Speaker should probably be an elder for the stone instead. They do similar things and the elder is more flexible.
- Highwaymen are good with the feat, but they are not well supported other than that. Sluggers are also very strong with the feat, but i think that having two units of HWM and a unit of sluggers is overdoing it. I would definitely drop a unit of HWM for something that is not as dependent on shooting. All those units are basically worthless if engaged and i do not like that.
So, i would switch the beast package a bit and drop a unit of HWM. A Mountain King is a traditional option if you have it. A second bomber is certainly possible, especially if you get a Gobber Chef in there to be able to handle all the fury better. The problem is to find something else to play rather than the second unit of HWM. Kriel Company offers very limited choices there... Raiders are an option, even Bushwhackers are. A second WW could also work. Your list can only crack ARM on the feat turn now though, so Sons of Bragg could be an option to have a bit more teeth on a turn by turn basis. This is not you building a bad list though, but an inherent problem of Kriel Company. List 2- 3 Bombers are at least 1 too many, especially since you do not have Fury management in the list.
- Fire Eaters are nifty in general.
- You do not have any solos to score flags. This is not acceptable. Braylen is bare minimum.
- Your list is super hampered if it becomes engaged by anything (again though, this is a general problem with KC)
Adding a unit such as Raiders instead of the third Bomber will help you a lot. This can also net you a free solo such as Braylen to score flags.
It is very hard and frustrating to build good lists in KC, because the theme is so restrictive. Both the WW and the sluggers are really good pieces, and i understand why you would want to play them, but the opportunity cost you pay in the form of reasonable melee choices is really high and can lead to some really strange gameplay. Hopefully KC will go through CID at some point and be straightened out a bit, but that can take years to happen. Im not saying it is impossible, but just know that you have started in the most tricky part of trolls.
|
|
|
|
Post by manilatroll on Jun 9, 2018 11:45:49 GMT
I like to run my 2 units of fire eaters in a semi circle up the board followed up with a rushed bomber. I then use the runebearer to cast Horgle's consuming flames targeting the bomber  lights every fire eater without a pyre troll |
|
joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
|
Post by joedj on Jun 10, 2018 14:07:44 GMT
I like to run my 2 units of fire eaters in a semi circle up the board followed up with a rushed bomber. I then use the runebearer to cast Horgle's consuming flames targeting the bomber lights every fire eater without a pyre troll Haven't done that, makes sense. I should make a template for easy placement of the FEs to ensure they are poised in the perfect positions for the next turn's Assault. It is interesting that Horgle2 seemingly has a great set of 'helper' spells, and a Feat that can enable greater attrition, yet appears to be one of the harder Warlocks to find that obvious competitive list-theme combo. Perhaps too balanced, not allowing a skew to one army build 'question' or strategy? Not sure if there is a KC build that will give opponents a 'decent practice game' for SR type tournament practice. Primarily because currently "You are unlikely to see this theme/army in a tournament...". That said, I do believe a very experienced player can pilot almost anything to a not-horrible loss  |
|
|
|
Post by harcos on Jun 11, 2018 22:24:33 GMT
I really like the FE in a circle around the bomber idea. Will need to play that next game.
For trolls, I don't have that many casters.
Hoarluk Doomshaper (1 and 2), Hunters Grim, Jarl Skuld, and Ragnor Skysplitter.
I heard Jarl isn't played. I could try Hoarluk 2, (axers, maulers, mulg, and pile of whelps??). Haven't gotten much play time with the others honestly.
Other than what's on my lists, I have Scouts, Warders, Horthal, Janissa, whelps, Skinner, slag troll, MK, earthborn, bouncer, ice, and impaler. (Boomhowler unit from mercs, but people don't seem to like them.)
Would another caster be better?
Thanks again for the input =)
|
|
mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Jun 12, 2018 3:05:40 GMT
They are all playable, whatever you've heard. Jarl really prefers SotN for the free upkeeps, but speed 8 champs are pretty oppressive, according to the people I played them against, and he is possibly our best anti-support warlock. Trollock posted some nice lists a while back.
|
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jun 12, 2018 6:17:17 GMT
I actually pretty much stole those lists from bohemianchopslormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/5847/jarl-northAs a new player i think it is important that you do NOT change casters all the time. ALL of our casters are absolutely playable, and switching all the time will only make you suck at all of them (rather than knowing one or two well and sucking at the others). Take baby steps. Id say, pick two casters that you like (im assuming Horgle will be one) and i/we can help you build REASONABLE lists for them. Play those lists for at least 20 games, and then we can start thinking about mixing it up. This is assuming your goal is to get proficient at the game quickly. If you really enjoy the caster hopping, go ahead and do that. The objective of each game is to win, but the point of playing is to have fun, so do what you think is most fun |
|
ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
|
Post by ravenfire on Jun 12, 2018 7:08:05 GMT
Iam also playing Jarl in SoTn atm. A slight variation on the "stolen" list.
Jarl
RB
Bomber
Rok
Mist Speaker
Fell Caller
Max Stone + NK
Max Champs + Skaldi
Max Raiders
2x Bears
Jarl is just amazing with MB and removing key UA's and solos. Combined with the mist speaker for eyeless sight makes it hard to hide your solos.
I can tell you that tellig your opponent that your bears threat 14 inches and the Champs 12 inches is funny.
Raiders combined with Fell Caller for the +2 hit makes that unit clear infantry relatively easy. And the can threat 13 inches melee and 17 inches with bombs.
Raiders with quicken (+2 def vs ranged and magic and speed) and on a hill makes opponents cry (def 17). And under the stone makes then arm 16 and thus a bit harder to remove.
Bears and the +2 str evaporate any high arm the come across.
|
|
ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
|
Post by ravenfire on Jun 12, 2018 7:10:52 GMT
But Iam still debating Max or Min Stone. I am not filling up the stone past the min unit size. This is something I need to practise. But if it is not happening in 10 games. The stone goes to Min size and I will add a scorerer to the champs.
|
|
|
|
Post by bohemianchops on Jun 12, 2018 7:31:39 GMT
But Iam still debating Max or Min Stone. i am not filling up the stone past the min unit size. This is sonething I ned to practise. But if it is not happening in 10 games. The stone goes to Min size and I will add a scorerer to the champs. I’ve found after first turn the Stone will fill itself up to max by turn 3 unless I’m having pretty bad luck with my Awakens. Having that extra distance on the buffs is so useful that I find it hard to NOT take a max unit every time. |
|
ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
|
Post by ravenfire on Jun 12, 2018 9:55:31 GMT
But Iam still debating Max or Min Stone. i am not filling up the stone past the min unit size. This is sonething I ned to practise. But if it is not happening in 10 games. The stone goes to Min size and I will add a scorerer to the champs. I’ve found after first turn the Stone will fill itself up to max by turn 3 unless I’m having pretty bad luck with my Awakens. Having that extra distance on the buffs is so useful that I find it hard to NOT take a max unit every time. in all the time of awaken, did not experience this  |
|
lights every fire eater without a pyre troll 
