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Post by darkshroud on Jun 5, 2018 12:09:16 GMT
even then, in CID, what if they dont touch the stuff in your faction that you enjoy playing?
circle as an example. look how long they had to wait to get anything from tharn. and they still have to wait 6 months. meanwhile, circle players are running double bones lists. yea...thats what draws me to a faction.
note, i play cryx. so ive never had the problem outside of the first 6 months of mk3 where i switched to circle.
but even in our last cid. it was just the one or two themes.
what if i like IM? which is regarded as the lowest theme and honestly super boring to play. how long do i have to wait for that stuff to come back around?
switch factions? you mean sell the stuff i bought new and now have to buy second hand, if i dont have a good stream of revenue? thats enticing... /s
so i absolutely see how boardgames are taking sales away from the industry. i can buy a whole new game for the price of a unit and thats a substantial game at that. so i can buy 5 or 6 different games, if not more, for the price of a army. which means if i get bored of one game i can just switch it up.
but maybe im getting a little too doom and gloom...
different games are different.
different hobbies are different.
i guess we shouldnt really compare the two.
at the end of the day its how you want to spend time/money and where you see youre getting the most out of whatever youre doing.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 5, 2018 12:13:40 GMT
cygnar diggers, cryx black industries, grymkin, primal terrors, faithful masses etc. The problem is also partly that PP's threshold changes every cycle. For instance, a few factions had gotten their CID and they suddenly decide that Colossals need changing, pretty much guaranteeing that those faction's options won't be touched for a few more years. Yeah I am pretty salty that the Hurricane and Stormwall are stuck at 39 points, and every CID after ours saw the cost of their Gargossals go down, especially now the Storm-Pod is going to be reduced in effectiveness
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kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
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Post by kaernak on Jun 5, 2018 12:48:07 GMT
We had a player quit all PP related things yesterday due to his anger (more like lack of understanding how it works) at the CID cycle. However this is also a guy that throws a tantrum any time he can't win at a game when playing extremely poorly.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 5, 2018 12:55:48 GMT
If they release a lot of stuff it's because it's a lot of stuff, if it's not a lot of stuff then it's not a lot of stuff... They'll never please everyone so they should adopt a release schedule that allows them to develop the new mini-factions and themes well.
I'm pretty happy with it. The game is getting 1 mini-faction + 5/6 theme CID (call it 3 new models each) + Christmas thingy... That's a mini faction + 30ish models.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 5, 2018 13:39:51 GMT
I always am a bit surprised by threads like these because my meta has taken off in such a huge way since mk3, but...
In our area, not long after mk3 began we started up a local league (we call it a Scrum). It basically plays like a steamroller where you only play one game a week. It started out roughly 10 people, and has now grown to over 36. It has really motivated the community in our area and has increased tournament attendance dramatically.
I think two things happened to make this possible: 1. Mk3 was released and is continually polished to better balance and re-balance the game so that it isn't always the same few lists on top. This really improved the competitive depth of the game. 2. We (the players) found a format that lowered the barrier of entry (time commitment, finding other players, finding locations to play) and then promoted the ever loving crap out of it.
Step 1 has already happened and is continuing to happen with every CiD. Step 2 is on you.
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Post by Azuresun on Jun 5, 2018 13:41:08 GMT
The game has too many barriers of entry/maintenance. Absurdly expensive, unnecessarily complicated. I wouldn't agree that the game is unnecessarily complicated. Everything is quite logical, but you do need to know the rules. The core game is quite easy to explain and grasp in my opinion, especially if you have a wargaming background. There are a lot of nuances indeed, but those are well explained in the rules. The problem I've observed is that there's so much crap to keep track of in a typical game, dozens of special rules and exceptions and interactions. And any one of those dozens of rules could be absolutely critical! Forgetting that X can grant magic weapons or that Y is within rather than completely within or that Z gains Pathfinder when Venus is in the third house of Sagittarius can easily lose you a game before it's properly started. I regularly see even top-flight players having to stop and check rules regularly--what's the threat on this? Is that including speed buffs? Does that say faction or friendly faction? What have you got that ignores cover or RFP's?
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Jun 5, 2018 13:57:54 GMT
Of course, across the year you'll always see dips and dives, but it's been hard to even get new players now that funsies lists are getting smashed by spam and theme lists. Now that CIDs are churning out more powerful swings, it almost forces people to buy new tools for their faction to be valid and killing a new player's pocket book. Have you considered not smashing new players’ faces in with the latest OP hotness? Seems to me like with any game like Warmachine, there will always be some churn. People come and go as their lives change. The secret is getting new players out. My former meta was on the decline around the Mk.III launch, but since then it has actually grown. When the PG program disbanded, they had a couple really enthusiastic players who weren’t PGs and who really stepped up and they brought some new people in. Now they’re growing, and crossing the border to visit other cities for tournaments. Conversely, I know of one store locally where some of the people who game there had a reputation of being kind of... that guy. As a result, that store no longer supports Warmachine and is clearing out the last of their products. If you want to reverse the decline, don’t focus on hardcore competitive two list 75 point steamrollers. Do smaller points games, play your funsies lists, do journeyman leagues, etc. I played a 52 point game a while ago because my opponent had 52 points of stuff. And don’t ignore the hobby aspect. The person who got me into the game was a former GW employee who always played it painted. He had no idea I would be interested in painting, and now I’m teaching him tips and tricks. To be honest, a lot of the post sounds like “we are doing nothing to bring in new players or retain them, why aren’t they sticking around? Must be PP’s fault...”
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Post by The Snark Knight on Jun 5, 2018 14:03:56 GMT
I'm at least slightly curious if the mods would consider creating a consolidated Thread of Doom (TM) and putting a sticky on it.
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Post by darkshroud on Jun 5, 2018 14:17:52 GMT
To be honest, a lot of the post sounds like “we are doing nothing to bring in new players or retain them, why aren’t they sticking around? Must be PP’s fault...” probably bc PP had a plan for that, but then decided against it. im not saying its not on other players but if they want communities to thrive, its also kinda on them to help it along. they were doing cool stuff like story driven events i havnt seen in a while. 1 year? they took a community idea, caster/spell/feat draft and sold it. like really? how is that not in pdf for free like everything else? (correct me if im wrong) but on the flip side, they did do stuff like company of iron, which tries to get away from the tourney scene. which i liked the idea of. other companies like wizards has got this down to a "T" free events with free cards to help bring people in. if you win there are playing mats. there is a store close to me where they literally run something magic *every* day of the week... now tell me it the players fault... maybe they need to help push stuff at the store level and not push it onto the players to get stuff going. *EDIT* it would be sweet if they had objectives or flags for the participants of an event. they make dice and tokens, why arent those pushed to stores as rewards.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 5, 2018 14:21:24 GMT
maybe the need to help push stuff at the store level and not push it onto the players to get stuff going. In my country/Europe I know of some stores that have stopped actively promoting the game simply because actually getting stuff for it is nearly impossible. Supply lines are dreadful and they can't go around telling people about this awesome game that they have to buy stuff online for...
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Post by trollsareblue on Jun 5, 2018 14:23:53 GMT
WMH is down in my area as well. One store is clearing out all PP stuff. I rarely see people playing the game outside of tournaments, and tournament participation has plummeted. I tend to think part of the problem is the game is starting to collapse under its own weight. There's too much stuff to remember, too many different variations of the same rule, and, honestly, maybe just too many different models.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 5, 2018 14:25:20 GMT
WMH is down in my area as well. One store is clearing out all PP stuff. I rarely see people playing the game outside of tournaments, and tournament participation has plummeted. I tend to think part of the problem is the game is starting to collapse under its own weight. There's too much stuff to remember, too many different variations of the same rule, and, honestly, maybe just too many different models. It's funny how they tried to consolidate rules in MK3 and then randomly start adding new variations again anyway. Looking at you Syvestro!
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 5, 2018 14:31:10 GMT
WMH is down in my area as well. One store is clearing out all PP stuff. I rarely see people playing the game outside of tournaments, and tournament participation has plummeted. I tend to think part of the problem is the game is starting to collapse under its own weight. There's too much stuff to remember, too many different variations of the same rule, and, honestly, maybe just too many different models. It's funny how they tried to consolidate rules in MK3 and then randomly start adding new variations again anyway. Looking at you Syvestro! Please not this again...
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Post by darkshroud on Jun 5, 2018 14:42:06 GMT
It's funny how they tried to consolidate rules in MK3 and then randomly start adding new variations again anyway. Looking at you Syvestro! Please not this again... would have been worse if they went down the immunity road
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 5, 2018 14:43:12 GMT
would have been worse if they went down the immunity road Plz stop, you're giving me flashbacks!
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