Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Sept 20, 2018 14:24:30 GMT
Couple that with Mark Target from the Moonhound and you have RAT 8 sprays when needed. It's subtle, but I like it. Looks like it requires a master class in positioning though.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Sept 20, 2018 15:09:44 GMT
elshinare - Fog of War brings them to DEF 16 against guns, which isn't trivial. Reposition 3 on top of a free freezer can get them into really awkward places for your opponent to deal with, especially since under feat anything that isn't boosting is probably not killing one. The boosted sprays do a lot of work against infantry since you can aim and reposition a lot of the time, and with synergy and hunters mark and primal they can put out three boosted PS 17 hits which is pretty darn strong. It's a super interesting list to play, but it's incredibly challenging positionally. I think it's well suited to fighting Grymkin, most of Cryx, a lot of Protectorate, most of Khador, lots of Trolls randomly, and many other similar style lists.
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Post by Forsaken on Sept 20, 2018 18:29:05 GMT
So what exactly do winter Argus get from Kaya 3? Synergy only works on melee attacks so those sprays do nothing,no assault shot or gunfighter so can't even get the sprays in melee right? How does it play? I mean 5 wild Argus can wreck face with the combo bite. I just don't see what frostwolves add to the list With the feat you can walk through models and be immune to feee strikes. You can spray things from behind, or spray the back lines. Combo strike is pretty bad with synergy tbh. You do 3 more damage at best. Better to have more attacks often enough. I'm inclined to disagree. I find the wild argus is good for starting the synergy chain. Against many targets he's nearly auto hitting and combo-bite lets you get some damage on higher armor without the damage buff.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 20, 2018 18:56:16 GMT
With the feat you can walk through models and be immune to feee strikes. You can spray things from behind, or spray the back lines. Combo strike is pretty bad with synergy tbh. You do 3 more damage at best. Better to have more attacks often enough. I'm inclined to disagree. I find the wild argus is good for starting the synergy chain. Against many targets he's nearly auto hitting and combo-bite lets you get some damage on higher armor without the damage buff. My point was meerly that having a single strong attack is worse than having many attacks when you get +3 to damage.
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Post by elshinare on Sept 20, 2018 22:51:07 GMT
I'm inclined to disagree. I find the wild argus is good for starting the synergy chain. Against many targets he's nearly auto hitting and combo-bite lets you get some damage on higher armor without the damage buff. My point was meerly that having a single strong attack is worse than having many attacks when you get +3 to damage. So, in my experience, playing 5 WArgus and 3 Gorax Ragers under Kromac2 (not a 100% comparison but deal with it for a minute), people are more inclined to try to kill Ghetorix and the Riphorn Satyr I bring and ignore the WArgus, but then when a charging WArgus (or walking) gets in and is primaled on feat turn, it is hitting at PS 20 on one attack, ps 16 on 3 more if you don't need to doppler bark. Being mat 9 or 10 makes dice off 6 on the highest, or dice off 2 at the best. Pow 20 boosted and then buying 2 more at pow 16 can take out many hard targets, and being def 14 is not too shabby either. Now my Kaya3 version skipped Ghetorix, Riphorn, the Gorax and 1 Argus for 3 Scarsfell and 2 Feral WW. Argus hitting at pow21(19 without primal) on ANY turn is pretty legit, and pow 17 (15 w/o primal) is still pretty solid. If you're saying to spray 6 at PS 12 are better than that, unless it's infantry you're missing out on the major part of her toolbox right? Maybe I am wrong but with how rules are you cannot spray while engaged in melee right? And even in the back arc you're still engaged if the melee of the opponent is greater than .5?
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Post by Trollock on Sept 21, 2018 1:28:22 GMT
elshinareIm not entirely sure what your point/question is im afraid, so this might not make much sense hehe. About the shooting aspect. You can not shoot while engaged, so you can not do both shooting and melee at once. You can however walk through/behind/away from the enemy to not be engaged and shoot. Having two sprays is obviously better than having no sprays, right? It allows you to kill more models in a turn when up against infantry, since an Argus will rarely be able to engage and kill more than two infantry models at once. Right? Next we have the combo strike thing. Im the first to admit that having combo strike is obviously better than not having it, since even a wild Argus can avoid using it if it prefers. But lets check damage output against the standard Khador heavy. If you have 3 synergy, a free charge and primal you are pow 17 with regular bites and pow 21 with the combo strike. We can ignore the damage done by any bought attacks since it will be identical in both cases. Both scenarios allow you to buy 3 pow 17 attacks, so we ignore those and focus on how much damage you do with your initials. If you do a combo strike, you do one boosted pow 21, and that causes roughly 11,5 damage. If you do two initials instead you do a boosted pow 17 and an unboosted pow 17. This would cause 7.5 + 4 = 11.5 damage. The same output! The key is simply that if your second initial is likely to cause close to 4 damage the combo strike has no real effect since it effectively trades an initial för 4 extra damage. If the opponents ARM is lower you are better off with doing more attacks, if it is higher (or your pow is lower due to lack of buffs) you are better off with the combo strike. My point was that the difference between the two cases is usually not super big. The math is a bit more complex when you account for boosting with Fury on the other attacks, or when you cant assume auto hitting (if you have not primaled, or have no synergy yet) but the difference will remain fairly small in total output. That was my point. I hope we can agree upon that much hehe.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Sept 26, 2018 13:15:53 GMT
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Post by elshinare on Sept 27, 2018 23:22:14 GMT
Nice look into the models. Personally I may start playing just devourer's host, Loki with Kromac2 and bloodweavers just seems like a broken shenanigans. Especially adding the blood shaman, just DI for days and hook everything.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 28, 2018 11:51:48 GMT
I was really inspired to try Baldur 2 with tharn. im probably gonna make a post with all the non-obvious tharn lists i probably will never try
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Post by LoS Jaden on Sept 30, 2018 0:42:40 GMT
Trollock - here are some more pictures for you if you'd like to look As I scramble to paint things up for WMW this year, I took an hour today and took pictures of all the stuff I was painting furiously for WMW *last* year so that I could finally put nice ish pictures of all my Grymkin up on the website. For anyone interested, here is the link to the gallery page. www.loswarmachine.com/jadens-grymkin/
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 1, 2018 1:26:37 GMT
Trollock - here are some more pictures for you if you'd like to look As I scramble to paint things up for WMW this year, I took an hour today and took pictures of all the stuff I was painting furiously for WMW *last* year so that I could finally put nice ish pictures of all my Grymkin up on the website. For anyone interested, here is the link to the gallery page. www.loswarmachine.com/jadens-grymkin/ I just looked at your circle, having forgotten which were the new pics, and wow! I would really like a write-up of how you do that blue steel. I am not sure it would work as well for my trollbloods, since I tend to use a more vivid palette, but it might be worth restraint in color to put that on the table.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 1, 2018 7:44:15 GMT
Trollock - here are some more pictures for you if you'd like to look As I scramble to paint things up for WMW this year, I took an hour today and took pictures of all the stuff I was painting furiously for WMW *last* year so that I could finally put nice ish pictures of all my Grymkin up on the website. For anyone interested, here is the link to the gallery page. www.loswarmachine.com/jadens-grymkin/
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Post by LoS Jaden on Oct 8, 2018 23:53:51 GMT
Blech, cid needs to drop and wmw needs to be over so I can talk about the tech Bret and I are testing >< whatcha all excited to explore when things go live?
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 9, 2018 0:38:47 GMT
Blech, cid needs to drop and wmw needs to be over so I can talk about the tech Bret and I are testing >< whatcha all excited to explore when things go live? I've got Morvahna1 lists in 4 different themes that I want to start testing (won't start till she goes live, as Mortality seems a bit dicey) I want to play Wurmwood, Baldur1, and Una2 in Devourer's Host, and Kromac2, Kromac1, and Kaya3 in CoTW. Very excited to get my Warpwolves on the table again! I'm not at all excited about Iona...I'm sure she'll be very strong, and she might even be the best option for Tharn...but if I wanted to play 'big numbers, no tricks: the faction' I would not be playing Circle.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Oct 9, 2018 2:05:27 GMT
Man I just can't get behind Una 2 dev host, she seems so much better in CotW. Hand of fate is amazing, don't get me wrong, but I just like more birds with her. I wasn't excited about Iona either, I get it
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