cap7n
Demo Gamer
Posts: 16
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Post by cap7n on Mar 26, 2018 23:15:51 GMT
Hey everyone,
Buddy on mine has been running double derp turtile under fatty Mc.Butter pants and man is it oppressive. My normal OW2 list can handle 1, but two is a little much when they can rip a heavy off no prob.
Was thinking of trying Zerk 1 LoS or B1 WGK With 4 heavies. Anyone else have play time against them and have good tricks?
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Mar 27, 2018 0:09:22 GMT
Last time I dealt with one I used irusk2 los, and battle lust helped a lot
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Post by Netherby on Mar 27, 2018 4:38:53 GMT
Hmm, I've never actually beaten that list. I've come close by playing the scenario... I hate to say it, but it's actually a decent match up for Karchev. They usually have a bunch of stuff to easily trigger Road to War off which really helps when the turtles keep repositioning out of threat. Also Jump Start covers the issue of your stuff getting knocked down all the time. Battle Charged not so useful since they will be knocking down your stuff, so you can't counter charge when they repo away. I wouldn't have thought LoS would go that well into it. Usually they have plenty of Jam to get through and the turtles can kill a lot of infantry... I think what you really want into it is no knockdown + counter charge on jacks
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Mar 27, 2018 9:01:39 GMT
Aye, the turtles can really kill dudes. But taking irusk 2 means you've got a nice tough bubble to hopefully mitigate that!
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Post by auraco on Mar 27, 2018 12:40:11 GMT
Rashet in winds of death is currently kind of a silver bullet for khador, most hard gunlines, such as nemo3, are. We have good raw stats but very few way to actually help us close the gap when overwhelming shooting is on the other side of the board. What's your usual OW2 list? I have yet to test it but I've talked about it a lot with one of our local player who just made it to the WTC Canada team, so a good player, and he said the best option is OW2 with rocketspam and it's still an uphill battle, but it's the best option we have at the moment. I think once the armored corps stuff gets released we will have options to play against that. Strike tankers can do a lot of damage to a derp turtle, if you have a way to help protect them such as clouds, windstorm or a good armor buff (Strakhov2's feat comes to mind) They might be able to survive long enough to do some damage and possibly swing the attrition to your side. If you bring ayana & holt and ragman you can probably get a fairly big damage swing that allows you to kill the turtle without taking too much damage in return. The first list I had in mind was something along these lines: conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-107b7p7pl5l4l4l3l39ul28M8I7Qgd7QgdKhador Army - 73 / 75 points [Theme] Armored Corps (CID) !!! Your army contains CID entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Zerkova 1) Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova [+28] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Ragman [4] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] I'm still not sure about Atanas and having only one Kovnik, so the list is clearly still subject to change but the basic core of double shocktroopers all the tankers and the merc stuff should do a good job at making the derp turtle more manageable. The turtle are usually the models holding the zones, if you can tag them with kiss and a shocktrooper in ragman's death field the shield canon and the guns on the tanker can do a fair amount of damage to the turtles. Zerkova's feat and cloud are also very good tools to get a good board presence against a typical Winds of death list. That's the theory anyway, I still need to actually try the list once the MoW stuff is official. That list should also be able to deal relatively well with Nemo3, I think. Not exactly sure about Haley3, it would be a grindfest for sure with a cloudwall on both sides... Ayana & holt do allow to maybe take care of the echos, not sure if it has a big enough volume of attack to actually deal with def 15 trenchers...
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Mar 28, 2018 0:57:56 GMT
I haven’t played against a double turtle list (or even one turtle...our best local Skorne player is jamming Zaal 1/2 immortals spam). But, our meta has attracted a couple of new Skorne players and at least one of the rocks the turtle. Soooo...
We have a steamroller coming up on Saturday. In my list pairing, I would drop this. Why would I be worried?
War Room Army
Khador - Vlad 1 Kommand 1776
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand 1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Marauder - PC: 10 - Marauder - PC: 10 - Marauder - PC: 10 - Marauder - PC: 10
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
I’ve got sac pawn for days, and 4 Marauders that threaten 12 and eat turtles for lunch. So, what am I worried about?
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Post by blindfury on Mar 28, 2018 9:14:02 GMT
Blind from Gorman and OW2 have been pretty helpful for me.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 28, 2018 10:11:10 GMT
Blind from Gorman and OW2 have been pretty helpful for me. The problem is the Extoller Soulward or the Mist Speaker giving out eyeless Sight to the Turtles so they ignore the effects of Blind
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 28, 2018 11:47:38 GMT
How does V1 rocketspam play into it?
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Post by skathrex on Mar 28, 2018 14:05:33 GMT
auraco: You talked to McWaters? I think he underestimates his matchup. I run OW2 in WGK against Rasheth and Nemo3. Both matchups rely on positioning and setup and are far from easy but doable imo. Vlad1 or our Jackspams could work too. Vlad1 marauders outthread turtles in Melee while Jackspams are to much high armor for them in many cases. So the list of Armchair Warrior might actually work. Blind and clouds doesn't help against Rasheths funline since the shamans ignore LoS and the typical Rasheth list has 2 extoller Soulwards which grant eyless sight to the turtles. Shooting with Striker Tankers might be difficult too since they get the Krea Aura until they engage, and they are prime targets for the turtles themself. That sais MoW might work due to the nature of their tankyness. Rasheth can't debuff them usefully and even under feat a turtle needs 2 attacks for 1 Schocktrooper while Reivers do 1 dmg per 2xer combined. Usually what I try to do against Skorne is to push scenario and ignore the turles early. The goal is that they have to use Feat and or deploy the Turtles in melee. Thats the moment I am trying to kill them. After feat/turtles you have to basically survive another intense round and then should be fine.
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Post by auraco on Mar 28, 2018 14:44:01 GMT
Yup I talked to McWatters, he has more experience against these match ups than I do.
At the moment the options are clearly limited against Rashet.
I don't think clouds are totally useless against rashet though, well not when playing Zerkova, yes the turtles will ignore it, but rashet's arc node and venator won't be able to ignore them. Being able to deny blood mark by blocking LOS is good in that match up. Zerkova's feat is also pretty good to protect the tankers and allow more turn of shooting. It would probably not be an easy game, but I'm clearly curious to see it on the table to see if the theory actually works.
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Post by Ianassa on Jul 11, 2018 6:58:01 GMT
A little necrotech, but now that Armoured Korps has been out for some time, has anyone had success or failures against the derps? I'm also leaning towards shocktroops and strike tankers to hopefully deliver as they can shrug off most of the other stuff that list can throw at them, but haven't had a change to try it out yet.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 11, 2018 7:47:33 GMT
I imagine Irusk2 Armoured Corps would work; I run double Strike and double Damage Buff, and my whole army is no-KD tough, which should help against the turtles. I've got enough blasts to deal with hordes of Venators. I just don't know how they'd fare into his feat and laser guided Blood Marks.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 11, 2018 8:10:03 GMT
Shocktroopers should do pretty well to blunt them.
But you would need Iron Flesh to counter the feat. At ARM 21 impact hits should mostly bounce, the charge attack most likely kills but then it should take two bought attacks to kill an ST. So you're looking at it killing 2 models on average, 3 if it rolls hot or damage has already been done. That's not a great trade assuming you can kill it next turn...
Without Iron Flesh it's not great though. Under the feat the impact attacks will do some points and it could then put each bought attack into a model either finishing it off after the impact damage or using the gun to do the last point or two.
Of course once the feats gone a unit of Shocks with Iron Flesh becomes a very hard target to deal with for the list. Remember that Blood Mark is a SINGLE model and it's an upkeep.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 11, 2018 10:23:09 GMT
Oh, yeah, but it's not the Shocktroopers I'm worried about. The Animantaraxes killing 6 between them and then dying to the counterattack is 100% fine by me. But if they can use Dual Attack to get a bead on the Demo Corps/Bombardiers they were shielding, that's going to be gruesome. 2d3+2 shots at straight dice under the feat should kill half the unit cheerfully, likely more. Losing 6 models out of, say, 24, isn't the end of the world, but losing 10 or more is really an issue.
I've honestly been considering switching the Demo Corps for another unit of Shocktroopers. They don't lose much damage wise thanks to assault, and on their worst day they're still tougher than the Demos. I can't find the points, though. Plus, sometimes that freeze happens and all your problems vanish in a cloud of ice shards.
It's also why I like the Irusks; sometimes ARM alone is not enough, and it's up to tough to save the day. Irusk1 can, of course, do both, but I'd miss FFE and Tactician a lot, I think.
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