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Post by moarbarmu on Mar 16, 2018 3:48:19 GMT
Rhul is why I got into the faction and the game. I am not happy with the neglect that PP has subjected Rhul too. Hammerstrike needs a CID but we need more of a CID than just the theme force. We need a second theme force, since we are such a major sub-faction of Mercenaries. Hammerstrike only gets part of the greatness of Rhul right. We need a more Searforge Commission-feeling theme force. Hammerstrike should be Rhulic government whiel Searforge Commission should be the mercenary forces of Rhul. This duality reflects the fluff well and the historical background of Rhul, i.e. Switzerland, on which Rhul is mostly based, very well. Just Swiss confederal armies and mercenary armies were similar but different and distinct, so would these two theme forces be so distinct. Rhul needs to rebuild its fanbase which has fallen away dramatically in the last three years. If we had the fanbase we used to have, we might have had a CID earlier than this. We need to find a way to demand a CID. In addition to the two theme forces, we need more units, a warcaster, probably a warjack and a solo. We need improvements to the Highshields. They are my favorite unit in the game and I want it to be well-respected. The solo should be a Highshields-enhancing solo. We need a new warcaster, I have lots of ideas but no one has ever really listened to me. This warcaster should be more defensively minded than Gorten and help Highshields especially. If anyone wants more ideas or details about this character, just ask. We need more fluff for Rhul, more everything frankly. Rhul has been overlooked too long. We the Rhulic community need to demand attention. The crucible Guard comign before us is an insult we must nto forget but instead respond by demanding a CID.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 16, 2018 4:28:37 GMT
what if they havent made any new dorf models for you to test? then their hands would be tied and that would be too bad for all concerned
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Post by fallenexile on Mar 16, 2018 5:44:02 GMT
Dwarfs are fine, imo. No need for a new theme. We already have 3 Casters which is pretty on par with the other sub factions. We have 1 of 2 of the Colossal and the only merc battle engine. We have the only good merc weapon crew and one of the most competitive lists in Mercs. We have 4 heavies and 2 lights and 4 units.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a buff to highshields, maybe a new light jack, a new unit or 2 and some more utility solos... but I think Pirates need a CID more than we do. We're not in a bad place. It may not be the BEST place, but it's not bad.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Mar 16, 2018 11:38:04 GMT
So the idea of a second theme force is a little much IMO. After all, Pirates have one theme, Llael has one theme, Rhul has one theme, Cephalyx has one theme, and then you kinda have Magnus's one fluffy theme, and a general theme for mercs. So Rhul is right there with the rest of the sub-factions in Mercs really.
Now if you wanna mention units or jacks? I'm down to talk! After all there are three light jacks usable by human casters, Rhul has 2. So Jacks, we could use one light. I guess it could also be looked at that non-dwarf casters have access to two character jacks, and I've heard plans of a third (using the Toro chassis), so we could use a character Jack. Also the EB needs something... I've tried running it a few times, but currently it does nothing that two siege crawlers can't get done, or just a couple more heavy jacks, etc... but I'm not sure what it would need.
Now talking about units, what about the OAC? I had a thought about maybe a unit attachment that would give the unit ambush. Combined with Assault, this would give them awesome threat, and give mercenaries it's first native ambush unit. Plus I've seen all the new female ogrun models, and thought that it would be cool if mercs got one too! So Make a female Ogrun UA for the OAC that gives them a defined space in mercs. Not only that but you could get the attachment for free in Hammer strike, or in the Irregulars meaning that you don't have to pay for ambush.
High shields... they need... so much. I've tried, and I'm still not convinced more range would help, I'm not sure more movement would help (or be very thematic), and armor wise... they just gonna die. If they were to be dirt cheap, I might take them as a sacrificial front line... but even then... not sure it would help much. Doesn't help they already have a UA, so the solution would have to be a solo which means you're probably looking at least 25 or so points for the whole boat... and that means they gotta get a lot done!
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 16, 2018 13:23:25 GMT
So I can't really agree with the idea that Rhul needs a CID. At this point, nearly all of the models are on point. There aren't a ton, but they are quite comparable in size to Cephalyx (larger in fact) and at least as effective, if not more. I am totally in love with Crow's OAC UA idea and the high shields being bad is so well established that its basically a meme. Other than those two units and the colossal (and all colossal's are less good than they were in mk2), there isn't really a lot that needs work.
As a side note, we're getting pirates (agreed that it is much more necessary as there isn't really a good pirate list currently) and we have already have Llaelese (sorta by proxy). Having a 3rd CID before some factions have had their first is super unlikely.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 16, 2018 15:03:34 GMT
Sadly, everything you may state that the Rhulics may need, Cephalyx needs a little bit more, with the exception of a high Focus 'Caster. That doesn't mean the Dwarves don't need some some additional models!
The Rhulic breakdown on Warroom is: 3 'Casters (no Epics) 2 Light 'Jacks 4 Heavy 'Jacks (no Characters) 5 Units (1 Character, no Cavalry) 4 Solos (3 Characters, no Battlegroup Solo)
Compared to the Sellsword and Llaelese group (and not including the Partisans): 6 'Casters (+3 Privateers, 2 Llaelese, 2 Epics) 3 Light 'Jacks (+1 Privateer, 1 semi-Character) 5 Heavy 'Jacks (+2 Privateer, 1 Character) 11 Units (7 Character, 1 Cavalry) 22 Solos (21 Characters, 2 Cavalry, 1 Battlegroup Solo, not including the Lesser Warlocks)
So, yeah, we have a bit of disparity in some areas that could be looked at.
Interestingly enough, it appears that the only WA in the entire Mercenary group is for the Sea Dogs. That is one area that the High Shields could definitely get some advantage with. Toss in a Tactics Solo for them and the Forge Guard and we start having some good rounding out for the current stunties. A Battlegroup Solo (aka journeyman warcaster) and Cavalry unit (motor bikes, anyone?) would get some of the missing basics out of the way.
The Ogrun are a a bit different. A CA or Tactics Solo could help with the deficiencies of the Assault Corp. There could be a melee unit, not necessarily of Bokur, but maybe a Character unit of veteran Bokur who are just a nasty tough unit that gets in your face with those impressive pole-arms. I don't know how Ogrun Cavalry would work without going Huge, though.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Mar 16, 2018 15:47:00 GMT
Sadly, everything you may state that the Rhulics may need, Cephalyx needs a little bit more, with the exception of a high Focus 'Caster. That doesn't mean the Dwarves don't need some some additional models! The Rhulic breakdown on Warroom is: 3 'Casters (no Epics) 2 Light 'Jacks 4 Heavy 'Jacks (no Characters) 5 Units (1 Character, no Cavalry) 4 Solos (3 Characters, no Battlegroup Solo) Compared to the Sellsword and Llaelese group (and not including the Partisans): 6 'Casters (+3 Privateers, 2 Llaelese, 2 Epics) 3 Light 'Jacks (+1 Privateer, 1 semi-Character) 5 Heavy 'Jacks (+2 Privateer, 1 Character) 11 Units (7 Character, 1 Cavalry) 22 Solos (21 Characters, 2 Cavalry, 1 Battlegroup Solo, not including the Lesser Warlocks) So, yeah, we have a bit of disparity in some areas that could be looked at. Interestingly enough, it appears that the only WA in the entire Mercenary group is for the Sea Dogs. That is one area that the High Shields could definitely get some advantage with. Toss in a Tactics Solo for them and the Forge Guard and we start having some good rounding out for the current stunties. A Battlegroup Solo (aka journeyman warcaster) and Cavalry unit (motor bikes, anyone?) would get some of the missing basics out of the way. The Ogrun are a a bit different. A CA or Tactics Solo could help with the deficiencies of the Assault Corp. There could be a melee unit, not necessarily of Bokur, but maybe a Character unit of veteran Bokur who are just a nasty tough unit that gets in your face with those impressive pole-arms. I don't know how Ogrun Cavalry would work without going Huge, though. You’re missing two casters, Caine 3 and Constance, and there are only three dwarf solos, Brun, Thor, Bokur, and there are 5 light jacks, talon, bucaneer, vanguard, renegade, and ACE if you’re using Caine 3. Also you have 8 heavies... but ya
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Mar 16, 2018 15:52:55 GMT
Don't hold your breath for a CID this year. It may happen, but probably not. Most of the Rhulic stuff is in pretty good spot. The Earthbreaker should be cheaper. Highshields need a lot of love. Ogrun Assault Corps need a lot of love And TAC would like their boxes back. Durgen is a little weak, and think he would like to see Explosivo again, which would give Hammerstrike some versatility into matchups. A 2" reach heavy would be nice but not likely.
The rest of the cast is pretty solid and sees me putting it on the table regularly.
As others have mentioned, the other "real" factions will be getting their CID before we do in order to drive sales though their themed boxes and to balance the bulk of the models getting played out there instead of a subsection of a faction that isn't as popular.
Also, to the above about model comparisons. I think it's mistaken to compare Rhulic to multiple or combined themes/options. For example, casters: Rhulic (3) to "other" (3 + 2 + 2). The game is all about themes right now. So the comparison should be done as such. Rhulic has 3 casters, Llael has 2 unique casters, with 2 shared casters, etc. How this maths out could be up for debate but I think it's more accurate a comparison than was done.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 16, 2018 16:08:37 GMT
You’re missing two casters, Caine 3 and Constance, and there are only three dwarf solos, Brun, Thor, Bokur, and there are 5 light jacks, talon, bucaneer, vanguard, renegade, and ACE if you’re using Caine 3. Also you have 8 heavies... but ya I'm not missing the two casters, I specifically stated that I wasn't including the Partisans, and that includes Ace and Gallant. They are just a little too odd for this set up (and there may be some edition lag with that, too), and those trend to run better in their partisan nations (not necessarily the units, but the casters). Otherwise, the number of 'Jacks and 'Casters are accurate (that is what the +X for Privateer means). I just noticed that Hutchuk is not listed as a Rhulic Solo, Ogrun is in the name, but not in the key words (how very odd). That should be something that is addressed as well.
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Asmoridin
Junior Strategist
Getting back into the game after too long a hiatus!
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Post by Asmoridin on Mar 16, 2018 16:22:29 GMT
I would love to see more Rhulic options, if anything- the Rhulic theme force is great, and as mentioned, I'd love to see the Gun Corps get an improvement. Maybe make some of the heavies more attractive (I just see Drillers). More options though, that would be nice.
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Zeykk
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Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Mar 16, 2018 16:35:54 GMT
Charistoph I believe that they already addressed the Gundrun and Hutchuck thing when Hammerstrike first released. I think they said (paraphrasing) "they are not Rhulic" and as such do not have the Rhulic identifier. There is nothing to be addressed. If they wanted them in theme, they would have added "Ogrun models" to the list like they did for Hammerfall Irregulars.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
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Post by Choco on Mar 16, 2018 16:48:00 GMT
Charistoph I believe that they already addressed the Gundrun and Hutchuck thing when Hammerstrike first released. I think they said (paraphrasing) "they are not Rhulic" and as such do not have the Rhulic identifier. There is nothing to be addressed. If they wanted them in theme, they would have added "Ogrun models" to the list like they did for Hammerfall Irregulars. This also applies to Lord Rockbottom. He's a traitor to Rhul, if I am remembering my fluff correctly. EDIT: Just to make it clear, the theme says that is includes Rhulic models. It does not say anything about Ogrun in a separate clause like it used to.
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Zeykk
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Post by Zeykk on Mar 16, 2018 16:51:41 GMT
Like it used to? Hammer Strike never said Ogrun. It is a new theme for Mk3. Or are you refering to the transition of it from Hammerfall Irregulars to Hammer Strike, as they are fairly similar. If so, I'm sorry as in that case it's more semantics than anything.
Good callout on Rockbottom. I forgot him.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
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Post by Choco on Mar 16, 2018 16:55:25 GMT
Like it used to? Hammer Strike never said Ogrun. It is a new theme for Mk3. Or are you refering to the transition of it from Hammerfall Irregulars to Hammer Strike, as they are fairly similar. If so, I'm sorry as in that case it's more semantics than anything. Good callout on Rockbottom. I forgot him. Searforge Commission was open to Rhulic and Ogrun models. Back when there were significantly less options they tried to open up as many options as they could.
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Zeykk
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Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Mar 16, 2018 17:01:04 GMT
Choco You're right. I forgot about Commissions/Contracts. With themes being the thing, it's been my focus. Apologies and thanks for the reminder.
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