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Post by Phlushot on Mar 14, 2018 16:15:18 GMT
I haven’t looked at them very much, but generally their MAT and RAT seem a little below the curve. I think the idea begin this is that you hit the enemy with ice cage first to lower their DEF. Logically, a northkin def skew will be pretty good into them. Almost everything in the faction is at least Mat or Rat 6, they have a Vet Leader warjack on Prospero, Vet Leader warrior on Baldwin, and Vet Leader BE on McKay. They have Ice Cage (if you aren't in SotN). I really don't see where they have accuracy issues. To me it seems like their biggest weakness is melee presence, none of their infantry that I noticed can really take a hit in melee. At the same time it seems like their infantry clearing ability is bonkers good (specially the Battle Engine).
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Mar 14, 2018 23:37:27 GMT
I haven’t looked at them very much, but generally their MAT and RAT seem a little below the curve. I think the idea begin this is that you hit the enemy with ice cage first to lower their DEF. Logically, a northkin def skew will be pretty good into them. Almost everything in the faction is at least Mat or Rat 6, they have a Vet Leader warjack on Prospero, Vet Leader warrior on Baldwin, and Vet Leader BE on McKay. They have Ice Cage (if you aren't in SotN). I really don't see where they have accuracy issues. To me it seems like their biggest weakness is melee presence, none of their infantry that I noticed can really take a hit in melee. At the same time it seems like their infantry clearing ability is bonkers good (specially the Battle Engine). To be fair, it’s fairly difficult to make a single list to take on all the options of a given faction. Once the CG meta settles, it’ll be easier to plan for. However, their entire faction (with the exception of 2 solos, and the veteran leader you mentioned) tops out at mat/rat 6. Even with the bump to mat/rat7 with vet leader, it’s still going to be an uphill struggle for them to hit madrak1’s def16 champions, especially if they’re cold immune. The battle engine seems really good, but again, it doesn’t seem like it’ll be good at hunting champions- pow7 blast damage, and pow14 cold damage (if the current immunities change sticks, that’s dice off 8) doesn’t seem enough to remove them. I haven’t seen any of this stuff on the table though, so please take all of this with a pinch of salt!
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Post by deviantcad on Mar 15, 2018 1:42:30 GMT
It does seem like CG will be glass hammers. I will say I thought their stats would be a little lower with the buffs they can stack. A lot of the debuffs are on AoEs so it is not just single target. The only part that seemed off to me was the innate self buffs that canceled out the low stats. Hmm def 11 is on the low side, but then they have perment concelment. So really 13.
I think their casters might be a weak point though. They might have to play more reserved or get assassinated. And as said before cold immume models with def skew might be a sweet spot. Just hope they look at the point cost of all immune models when they make the immunity change. Some of the elmental animus just got worse.
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Post by Phlushot on Mar 15, 2018 14:56:25 GMT
Almost everything in the faction is at least Mat or Rat 6, they have a Vet Leader warjack on Prospero, Vet Leader warrior on Baldwin, and Vet Leader BE on McKay. They have Ice Cage (if you aren't in SotN). I really don't see where they have accuracy issues. To me it seems like their biggest weakness is melee presence, none of their infantry that I noticed can really take a hit in melee. At the same time it seems like their infantry clearing ability is bonkers good (specially the Battle Engine). To be fair, it’s fairly difficult to make a single list to take on all the options of a given faction. Once the CG meta settles, it’ll be easier to plan for. However, their entire faction (with the exception of 2 solos, and the veteran leader you mentioned) tops out at mat/rat 6. Even with the bump to mat/rat7 with vet leader, it’s still going to be an uphill struggle for them to hit madrak1’s def16 champions, especially if they’re cold immune. The battle engine seems really good, but again, it doesn’t seem like it’ll be good at hunting champions- pow7 blast damage, and pow14 cold damage (if the current immunities change sticks, that’s dice off 8) doesn’t seem enough to remove them. I haven’t seen any of this stuff on the table though, so please take all of this with a pinch of salt! Baldwin gives warrior models Vet Leader and his feat gives prey (so +3 to hit). A Vulcan with him will be Rat 8 (10 if aiming, or 11 with Prospero) with 4 boosted pow 16 shots (two sprays and 2 aoes with all damage boosted and either no Tough/damage removal or remove the cold immunity), that pretty trivially wipes a unit of champs. Admittedly that's 37-42 points and a feat to do so but it's removing a hugely central piece in many Troll lists so I'd argue it's worth it. Alternatively Syvestro feat gives Sign & Portents and Transmutation gives -2 Def (and -2 Str if you manage to survive) which should also make hitting Def 14-16 pretty trivial. And don't forget the Dragon Rocket removing 2 ARM and Tough. I'm sure there are other things in the faction that I didn't notice during a quick perusal. I'm not trying to declare doom here, just that it hardly seems like CG is lacking in tools to deal with Trolls. Oh and there are a number of things in the faction that are Mat/Rat 7.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Mar 15, 2018 15:49:02 GMT
Play it and See how it goes on the table. Many things might seem very strong, but are easy to account for or vice versa.
Also +1 for Trollocks Post on Page 2, sums up my thoughts.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Mar 15, 2018 22:24:18 GMT
Oh and there are a number of things in the faction that are Mat/Rat 7. Sorry, just checked again and you’re absolutely right- crucially, the medium based assault trooper guys are mat7. Generally though, the jacks are mat6, the dudes with guns are rat6, although I didn’t realise how many army-wide accuracy buffs there are. To approach it from another angle, I remember one of the PP staff saying that CG fee a bit like ‘ranged Cryx’. Do you think that one of our good gunline answers (probably kolgrima or gunnbjorn) would be any better? Could still be a cold-based def skew if that would work.
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Post by Phlushot on Mar 15, 2018 23:04:14 GMT
Oh and there are a number of things in the faction that are Mat/Rat 7. Sorry, just checked again and you’re absolutely right- crucially, the medium based assault trooper guys are mat7. Generally though, the jacks are mat6, the dudes with guns are rat6, although I didn’t realise how many army-wide accuracy buffs there are. To approach it from another angle, I remember one of the PP staff saying that CG fee a bit like ‘ranged Cryx’. Do you think that one of our good gunline answers (probably kolgrima or gunnbjorn) would be any better? Could still be a cold-based def skew if that would work. I'm reading the CID forum as I have time at work but I really sadly don't have time to actually make a lot of lists and play test games. I will say that I'm not overly concerned about the end result as I've been pretty happy/impressed with everything that's come out of CID, if it's out of whack atm it'll be fixed by the end. I definitely think that 'ranged Cryx' seems fairly accurate in the sense that they're throwing out a good amount of debuffs. That said though they also seem to have plenty of guns with what feels like very very high pow. When they did their first CG spoiler on a podcast with the Suppressor and talked about how CG models were going to seem like their Pows were on the low side... and then I see the Storm Troopers, Railless Interceptor, Rocketmen Slug guns, etc. I'm seeing a lot of guns that are as good or better than other factions who have minimal Arm debuffs. There is a tester that is playing all of his games with the specific goal of showing just how broken their ranged assassination is, I'll be reading his reports for sure. The combination of sprays, arcing fire, cloud ignoring, debuffs all seem to combine into one scary monster.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Mar 16, 2018 8:33:34 GMT
Maybe something like this will aid in handling them ?? conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0GfL9D0j0jjq2Q0Ofl0li-iZiZiTbKcCLots of dig-in. Ambushing bears Some shield guards to handle the spikes a bit. And a feat to get them into melee Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Feralgeist [2] Farrow Brigands (max) [15] - Farrow Brigand Warlord [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3]
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Post by mrmayhem on Mar 20, 2018 20:12:07 GMT
Played against a Gearheart Magnum Opus list. My opponent only made the one list for CID testing, so he rolled to determine which of my two he would face, Kolgrimma PoD & Borka2 SotN. He had a Suppressor, Vindicator, double Storm Troopers, double Assault Troopers, one full Infantry + UA, a Dragon's Breath Rocket, and Hutchuck, so rolling Kolgrimma shut things down pretty hard for his ranged intensive list. I've been running the Northkin Elder with that list, and, even against Deceleration, the pow 14 sprays from her and the shamans cut through the 5-box units well enough. Between the feat and only needing two clouds to connect two relatively central LoS blocking terrain pieces, it ended up being kind of a shut out. That said, we pondered how different it could have gone with had he brought any Retaliator light jacks, whose sprays can remove clouds.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 20, 2018 22:23:48 GMT
Played against a Gearheart Magnum Opus list. My opponent only made the one list for CID testing, so he rolled to determine which of my two he would face, Kolgrimma PoD & Borka2 SotN. He had a Suppressor, Vindicator, double Storm Troopers, double Assault Troopers, one full Infantry + UA, a Dragon's Breath Rocket, and Hutchuck, so rolling Kolgrimma shut things down pretty hard for his ranged intensive list. I've been running the Northkin Elder with that list, and, even against Deceleration, the pow 14 sprays from her and the shamans cut through the 5-box units well enough. Between the feat and only needing two clouds to connect two relatively central LoS blocking terrain pieces, it ended up being kind of a shut out. That said, we pondered how different it could have gone with had he brought any Retaliator light jacks, whose sprays can remove clouds. Or Lynus & Edrea with Dr. Morely; Edrea can remove clouds, and Morely provides an incredible minifeat for all of that infantry...
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