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Post by Charistoph on Mar 5, 2018 6:07:13 GMT
None of the WM/H players on those nights would even consider a battlebox game to help me get used to the basics. It was (Mk 2) 50 pt Steamroller or nothing. You need to find players who aren't jerkasses. These are the kind of people who drive new players, hobby gamers, casual gamers, etc. away from the game, then blame PP for their meta dying. If it weren't for the fact that this is bad for people like you and bad for PP, I would say they deserve to have their meta wither and die around them then get their faces kicked in at major tournaments because they don't have anyone to practice with. Remember, this was in the past. That LGS is gone (for different reasons), and part of the interaction was my issue in scheduling. They had a casual night, I just had a hard time adjusting my schedule to it. Some of them could have been better, but often those "competitive night" games were also arranged before anyone showed up to save time, and intruding in on those just because I wanted some experience would make me the jerk. Also often managing to show up the weeknight before a tournament didn't help my chances. I'm literally in a new place, but getting to the new LGS is three times as hard due to how traveling to the store works now and lack of a job (used to be 4 times with a temp job always working me on WM/H night at the new LGS).
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Mar 15, 2018 19:51:19 GMT
It takes a certain mindset to "help" new players. We always had some good guys, some bad guys. I always try to dial back my already sketchy play when I get a new person and work from there. We had kids in my last meta too though, so there was a different dynamic in that as well. It's about finding the people with the PG mindset and helping them to balance their games with learner games. Very few people want to play all battlebox all the time, or run continual JM leagues. Most PG's I ever met were competitive gamers as well.
End of the day it's a community issue, and the community needs to band together to keep it strong and growing. The WM/Hordes community has slipped some from it's peak in the last few years, but there are still more good people than jerkasses (best I can tell). Everyone just needs to work together, it's better for everybody that way.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 15, 2018 20:23:02 GMT
unfortunately... find better friends.
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kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
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Post by kaernak on Mar 20, 2018 13:11:16 GMT
I tend to bring 3 or so lists (less if I have one opponent asking for one thing in particular). I will ask my opponent before hand "do you want me to play tournament stuff or fun stuff?". It is pretty easy if everyone goes into it like that.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 20, 2018 14:52:21 GMT
Personally, I play my Wednesday night gaming in a semi-random rotation, selecting from 3 or 4 of the least-recently played casters or units. The never ending one list tourney prep thing is boring as heck to me.
If the old hats are curbstomping the newbies with high-efficiency netlists and it's making the newbs quit, Then the only people able to really rectify the situation are the old hats. Tell them to stop being douches, that they're paralyzing and starving their local meta, and hope it takes.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Mar 20, 2018 20:24:13 GMT
Quarterly leagues (Journeyman or storyline-like) or events used to be the catch all for helping new players continue in the game without having to constantly face tournament-prep style armies.
I suspect the loss of the Press Gang, WM/H fans who were rewarded for their organizing skills and contagious enthusiasm, has led to a reduction in 'for fun nights' in general (YVenueMV).
MK3, and it's constant changes, has also led many players with competitive drives to continuously play and test the new CID released models, and mostly with an eye towards accept or disregard for competitive lists. This cycle of play to discover the best does not engender itself to play 'simply for fun'. Consequently, NEW players are not eased into the game, currently...
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Post by sirbrokensword on Mar 21, 2018 15:18:33 GMT
Warmachine is the wrong game if your going to get bored of competitive lists. Time for them to move on.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Mar 21, 2018 16:11:19 GMT
I am a little confused by how many posts here seem to boil down to "Teach your veteran players how to throw games to the less experienced players in ways that are not obvious"
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Mar 21, 2018 16:37:23 GMT
I am a little confused by how many posts here seem to boil down to "Teach your veteran players how to throw games to the less experienced players in ways that are not obvious" Yup. There are a number of posters here (Blarg is their unapologetic banner-bearer) who seem to think if two groups of people (Vets and casuals) have differing desires from a game, it should all be up to one group (the Vets) to accommodate the other. They seem to also labour under the misguided notion that being competitive will somehow destroy a local meta. I contest that both notions are utter bollocks. The strong competitive nature of Warmachine is precisely its advantage over other systems. It’s what WM does better than anyone else, and telling people to shy away from it is batty imo. Similiarly, if a group’s desires and your own don’t gel, it’s useless to rail against the uncaring skies that the group should change. If you find a group to play with, you need to respect the values of the group. If your preferences / needs are so different from that of the group that you cannot play nice together, then you need to find a more like-minded group. How firetrucking entitled do you have to be to insist that a functioning group of regular players upend their own apple-cart just to suit you? OK. I’ll stop before I mix all of the metaphors. -und_ed
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kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
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Post by kaernak on Mar 21, 2018 17:11:06 GMT
I don't think asking someone if they want a competitive list or a more fun "not stomp you in the nuts on top of turn 3" list is a bad thing at all. I don't think anyone just getting into the game should HAVE to play against something well tuned and having several tournaments under it's belt. Those games look extremely lopsided and can provide a NPE for a new player. We've got two newer players in our meta and while one of them enjoys getting destroyed (he wants to see the good stuff) the other is still learning how to move models around the board correctly. I don't think he'd appreciate running into an amazing tourney style list.
I'm not by any means saying throw them the game. If they aren't playing in a theme force I try not to either because 15+ points can be horrifying to fight. I WILL however play Kreoss 1 against them, making sure to tell them exactly what his game plan is and then let them hang themselves out to dry if they forget.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Mar 21, 2018 17:56:58 GMT
I am a little confused by how many posts here seem to boil down to "Teach your veteran players how to throw games to the less experienced players in ways that are not obvious" Literally zero posts here are saying that. Is that surprising somehow?
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Mar 21, 2018 17:58:55 GMT
Warmachine is the wrong game if your going to get bored of competitive lists. Time for them to move on. Because the best way to build your Warmachine community is to tell people to go play 40K instead?
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Mar 21, 2018 18:11:38 GMT
I am a little confused by how many posts here seem to boil down to "Teach your veteran players how to throw games to the less experienced players in ways that are not obvious" Literally zero posts here are saying that. Is that surprising somehow? Sorry I misunderstood then. I read having fun lists or list other than my tournament lists (like trading my siege animatrixs for 2 cannoneers in my list) or dialing back my crazy plays (don't go for an assassination) as subtle ways of throwing a game where your opponent will not notice. I apologize for my misunderstanding. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Post by elladan52 on Mar 21, 2018 18:12:38 GMT
Warmachine is the wrong game if your going to get bored of competitive lists. Time for them to move on. Because the best way to build your Warmachine community is to tell people to go play 40K instead? It can be. Nothing worse for a meta than a vesigial player that barely participates other than to complain loudly. Doesn't do much for that player, either. In general, it's better for people to play games they are happier with. Gently suggesting that people find something that makes them happy (maybe 40k?) is a great way to keep from burning friends, too.
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Post by elladan52 on Mar 21, 2018 18:22:17 GMT
Literally zero posts here are saying that. Is that surprising somehow? Sorry I misunderstood then. I read having fun lists or list other than my tournament lists (like trading my siege animatrixs for 2 cannoneers in my list) or dialing back my crazy plays (don't go for an assassination) as subtle ways of throwing a game where your opponent will not notice. I apologize for my misunderstanding. Thanks for pointing it out. Also I am 100% for throwing games sometimes for new players. A "one-size fits all" is a terrible approach to growing/maintaining a meta. One should not crush every new player and one should not coddle every new player. Each person needs something different.
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