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Post by tapecrawler on Mar 4, 2018 4:12:44 GMT
Do you want to see something that will cause a lot of nerd rage? Think about the Juggernaut getting bumped up to 13 points and then look at the spoiled 13 point heavy jack called Suppressor. It gets dual attack 2x SP6 POW12 attacks with a choice of: Ice Cage, Incendiary, or Rust. Cygnar players are going to need to retreat to their safe space because they won’t have the nicest toys anymore . . . 😂
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Mar 4, 2018 5:29:22 GMT
Don't take the first iteration as granted. Otherwise the suppression taker would still be the imba beast it was before.
They're going to take out half of the abilities soon enough. In the beginning they throw everything at a model and see what stick.
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Post by Netherby on Mar 4, 2018 5:33:47 GMT
I don't doubt CG will be a more competitive faction than Khador, Grymkin certainly are. That is the benefit of having all your models properly tested and balanced...
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 4, 2018 10:48:52 GMT
I think you're overselling it. It's pretty much a really expensive support model. It can reach the dizzying heights of P16 against a Juggernaut, and is P14 against Hordes... MAT6 P14 and D11 A18 with 30 boxes put it in a pretty terrible place. It's very poor at actually breaking things.
It's useful as a DEF and ARM debuff, especially as it can do both at once, but RAT5 SP6 is very close-ranged.
Dual Attack is the only thing making it worth considering, tbh.
Also, is it just me or is Dual Attack PP's new standard rule? Of the 4 new shooting things in the Armoured Korps CID, they all had Dual Attack to start with. They gave the Spriggan Dual Attack. The Supressor has Dual Attack, as does the Railless Interceptor.
EDIT: Hold the phone, didn't PP say all the heavies were on the same Chassis, and all the lights were on the Vanguard chassis? If that is representative of their heavy statline, that's pretty mediocre.
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Post by mcdermott on Mar 4, 2018 11:55:31 GMT
Well if it sticks close to the rpg the way other stuff has the toro at least will have aggressive and counter charge.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 4, 2018 12:05:49 GMT
I think you're overselling it. It's pretty much a really expensive support model. It can reach the dizzying heights of P16 against a Juggernaut, and is P14 against Hordes... MAT6 P14 and D11 A18 with 30 boxes put it in a pretty terrible place. It's very poor at actually breaking things. I've not really been following the GC stuff, but I get the impression there's lots of synergies and debuffs and stuff, so it's possible that it could be more effective than it initially appears to be. But yeah, as-is the 6" range is very limiting for a model that seems to be designed around flexibility. And a RAT 5 ice cage does not sound all that useful.
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 4, 2018 12:10:15 GMT
Well if it sticks close to the rpg the way other stuff has the toro at least will have aggressive and counter charge. Sounds plausible! The chassis seems to be based on the merc ones, so if that's their beatstick it'll be a Nomad with better DEF and extra rules, or a Mangler with less ARM and maybe a couple of switched rules... I guess that could be about 13 points. We'll find out on Wednesday
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Post by mcdermott on Mar 4, 2018 12:28:29 GMT
Well if it sticks close to the rpg the way other stuff has the toro at least will have aggressive and counter charge. Sounds plausible! The chassis seems to be based on the merc ones, so if that's their beatstick it'll be a Nomad with better DEF and extra rules, or a Mangler with less ARM and maybe a couple of switched rules... I guess that could be about 13 points. We'll find out on Wednesday The one in the rpg was 11/19 with a "hand weapon" aggressive, counter charge and like 32 boxes.
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 4, 2018 14:30:05 GMT
Have any of you seen Prospero? He can give this thinf guided fire "boosted attack rolls", veteran leader, and can pay focus to remove disruption/stand/give up to 3 focus/temporary unstable.
Propsero can turn this thing into a super efficient infantry mulcher and decent at beating up jacks. Rat 7, 3 dice to hit, spray 8 and POW 12 is way better than what we ever had for our supressor.
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 4, 2018 14:45:21 GMT
If my opponent wants to spend 18 points on that combo, he's more than welcome to. It's not got a hope in hell of beating up any jack with an ARM 18 or above, and I'd have a 50% chance of not even having to bother to kill it.
Much more dangerous into infantry, sure, but 18 points is the cost of an entire unit and then some.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 4, 2018 21:03:56 GMT
Can you post the full stats? Because having 2x pow 12 sprays alone does not excite me on a 13pt heavy. If it's like Cyclone - good guns with very bad melee, it's whatever.
Generally factions that have access to caster-independent arm debuffs are pillow-fisted (unless you're Cryx) and faction with caster-independent def debuffs are bad at hitting things (like Khador with rat 4-5 on everything). Faction that debuffs everything is bound to have none of their own base stats good. If they do have good stats it's a broken out of the gate faction that shouldn't make it past cid.
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 4, 2018 22:01:08 GMT
SPD 5 STR 11 MAT 6 RAT 5 DEF 11 ARM 18
13 points, 30 boxes, box layout same as Nomad.
Melee weapons: 2x open fist, P+S 14, RNG 1 No special rules on the melee weapons
Ranged Weapons: 2x Pyrodraulic Jet. SP6, ROF 1, P12. Attack type on the Jets: Ice Cage; does no damage, but as the Greylord spell Rust: Does no damage, but Constructs hit suffer -2 ARM for one turn Incendiary: Fire damage and continuous fire
Special Abilities: Construct Immunity: Fire Immunity: Corrosion Dual Attack
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Post by mcdermott on Mar 4, 2018 22:14:33 GMT
I mean, thats basically just intimidation via many rules. At its best (minus support) its a mat 8 pow 16 against a jack. womp womp.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 4, 2018 22:24:08 GMT
Well mat 8 pow 16 is better than Kodiak and better than many jacks actually. The key is Rust working only on "construct" models though, elephants and trolls will make this a very sad jack.
I see the chassis tradeoff for all the good things is having bad defensive stats. 11/18 is probably the worst defensive statline for a heavy, not enough def to miss and not enough arm to tank. In before they upgrade it in cid.
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Post by mcdermott on Mar 4, 2018 22:37:09 GMT
Well mat 8 pow 16 is better than Kodiak and better than many jacks actually. The key is Rust working only on "construct" models though, elephants and trolls will make this a very sad jack. I see the chassis tradeoff for all the good things is having bad defensive stats. 11/18 is probably the worst defensive statline for a heavy, not enough def to miss and not enough arm to tank. In before they upgrade it in cid. Except the kodiak has more armor, more boxes, higher base strength (relevant for its throw) and an infantry clear that doesn't need to hit and also provides cloud cover. 7 MAT isn't likely to miss other heavies any more than 8 is, 8's still likely going to want to boost against warpwolves. Edit: it also has to hit twice with rat 5 to GET to mat8 pow 16
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