No-theme lists

Ha! My kind of thread, just thought about something silly like this the other night.

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

Armory - Steamroller Objective

Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 5
- Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15)
- Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14
- Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14

Gatorman Husk - PC: 3
Gatorman Husk - PC: 3
Gatorman Husk - PC: 3

Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2

This post may seem like a downer, so feel free not to read it.


On the plus side, non-themed lists are very useful when testing out a new caster. You will probably lose, BUT you can test out many aspects of a caster at once, so the testing becomes more efficient. I for example played a game with Kolgrimma outside theme. I had Mulg for arcing as well as the DK for puppet strings, but i also had Sluggers to take advantage of Cursed Fate. I could test out both aspects of her in a single game rather than having to play two games with different themes. This can help you zoom in on what aspect of a caster you like most and help you build a "real" list from that.

Trolllock,

I think you misunderstood the intent of the thread. I did not say I was upset about themes or that I want non-theme lists to be as powerful as theme lists. In fact I really like themes and I think that they are good for the game in the long term.

The purpose of this thread was to find interesting non-theme lists with the ultimate goal of understanding WHY something works or doesn't work. I agree with you that there is almost no possibility of a non-theme list that will be super good and win the world championship. That is not my goal. I've realized that sometimes it helps to understand WHY something works or doesn't work. If an interesting non-theme list comes out of here then that is a bonus for me.

I would build the list around Mulg 10/10 times.
½ of the Trollbloods casters actually have good offensive spells, but with no arc-node the spells are far worse. Yes you could just play POD, but that only works for some of the casters.
Calandra, Doomshapers, Grims, Grissel1, Horgle2, Madrak3, Ragnor. All casters I rarely have seen in mk3, but would love to play if they had an arc-node

I doubt you can win/have fun with a list with no free points and paying 22 points for an arc-node you have to put at risk to cast spells, but I think that is the best you can get out of non-theme.

For example the good old Calandra backstab combo:
Calandra 1 [+27]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Mulg the Ancient [22]
Braylen Wanderheart, Trollkin Outlaw [5]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10]
Trollkin Highwaymen (max) [15]
Trollkin Highwaymen (max) [15]

Yeah, i probably misunderstood you

Might be problematic to see why a list works if the list doesnt work though... But i guess my Kolgrimma example above could be useful. Take a caster, and brain storm freely what interactions that caster could have with different models. Then play the list and try and focus on individual interactions rather than how the list work as a whole. You might find that some of the theoretical interactions were not so great but that others were real moneymakers. Then you could use that info to build a list that focuses on the really good interactions, and possibly sacrificing the bad ones to gain the raw benefits of a theme force.

Another example: Calandra.

She does a lot of cool things. Skews DEF, walks things around with befuddle or knocks things down. You want an arc node (or at least bone grinders), but you might also want to try highwaymen with Braylen to shoot things in the back. Champions with star crossed are cool too, right? Or you could take long riders to slam things over other things after you have walked them in to the perfect place with Befuddle. Or why not a 5" knockdown pie plate from a WW that you can place accurately by walking something there with Befuddle? Oh, and an EBDT with Bullet Dodger sounds great too, right?

Then we (try to) throw all those things in to a list and play it. More than once if we want to be really enthusiastic about it:


conflictchamber.com/#c7201b5a0riReChm0U0k0m6liSeAhU



Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points



(Calandra 1) Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood [+27]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [14]
Braylen Wanderheart, Trollkin Outlaw [5]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Long Riders (min) [12]
Trollkin Champions (min) [10]
Trollkin Highwaymen (min) [9]
Trollkin War Wagon [16]


I am confident that this list will be pretty bad. Sure, you could still win (you have a powerful and wonky assassination against many casters) but you might find out that the HWM are too much of a hassle to make work. Requiring Befuddle on a target to do anything is annoying. Then the WW might turn out to suffer from the same issues. The whole beffudle plan might be unwieldy but it is nice to have up your sleeve. Perhaps the champions murder the world with the feat, and the longriders slamming ppl out of zones, or over other models might be worth their salt. Maybe the EBDT was incredibly annoying to deal with.

Great! now we are getting somewhere. We crossed the Kriel Company part off the list but retained elements from BoH/SotN. We can now build a list in one of those themes that takes advantage of those elements. Maybe we keep the Bomber (for assassinating knocked down casters) and the Bone Grinders (to make Befuddle and Misfortune powerful options) and then build a list around Champs and Longriders:

conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0G5a0riRjq6GfFj20U0ki-6mj5iTcC



Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points

[Theme] Storm of the North



(Calandra 1) Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood [+27]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [14]
- Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)]
Fell Caller Hero [0(5)]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)]
Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Long Riders (max) [20]
Northkin Raiders (max) [15]
Trollkin Champions (max) [16]
- Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3]



Now i have not played either list, so im just making this scenario up as i write it, but this type of process could be useful...

You're correct, it's buried deep in the rules for Spirit Nexus, while the Channeler part is clearly marked next to the ability.  Very annoying, and confusing.  Also makes me wonder why I can take it when it seems to nothing other than being an immobile solo.  Maybe I'll make another thread.

I built two lists with Grim1 ; 1. In KC with lots of tasty shooting and 2. One outside of it because I wanted to Arc Grim's spells through Mulg deep into enemy lines. I wanted a Mantrap and Marked for Death that reaches as deep as his gun so he can stay safely in the back. Do you think it's worth it to give up theme?