mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 23, 2018 21:15:06 GMT
He may deserve a shot in Storm of the North, so I thought I'd throw an idea out there, and see what people think. First off, I think a huge base is probably a good idea, but I don't own one, so it's not in here at the moment. The HHH could replace the bomber so you could get a Mauler in the list, which seems like an improvement.
War Room Army
Trollblood - Fire storm
Theme: Storm of the North
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Stockpile - Steamroller Objective
Horgle, the Anvil - WB: +29
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0
- Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Rök - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0
Trollkin Champion Hero - PC: 5
Swamp Gobber Chef - PC: 1
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
- Northkin Elder - PC: 3
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10
Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5
- Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3
THEME: Storm of the North
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Arm 20 champs seem like they'll break people's teeth, especially with sanguine bond and retaliatory strike.
The arm buff might start on the fire eaters so they could be arm 22 against fire when they get lit up, probably by the rune bearer, and the other spells are fairly obvious. You might swap fire starter to Rok if he is coming on the feat turn, though. I'm inclined to only ambush one unit of bears, as the other and the fire eaters seem like a great alpha strike.
So, tell me how I'm wrong! I'm going to try this tonight, and I'll give feedback as soon as i can.
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Post by ninjastars on Jan 23, 2018 22:37:01 GMT
I was skeptical of this at first,because horgle’s feat doesn’t work well with infantry, but both champs and bears have multiple attacks, so I think you’d actually get enough leverage out if the feat with them. He also really likes the theme benefit. I like this list Amd I say for for it. I think the list would work well with a huge base too, but it’d be good either way.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656 
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 23, 2018 22:47:09 GMT
Rök could be downgraded to a Pyre which gets you another enabler and 10 points to play with (Fire Eaters second unit and upgrade the Gobber Chef to Lanyssa?).
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Post by windfury on Jan 23, 2018 22:47:36 GMT
I have no proof of this at all as I've never played with Horgle yet, but I'd think with that feat, you'd want more models that can dish the fire out such as a Pyre Troll and a 2nd unit of Fire Eaters, maybe in place of Rok, maybe drop Valka and use the Champ Hero as another Free entry and then you can pump up the Stone to Max as well, but I hope it works well for you.
I really like the big unit of Champs with extra tech for the ARM buff spell though.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 23, 2018 22:57:04 GMT
IMO horgle is really reliant on his feat, and his performance really depends on how much mileage you get out of it. I would either have another bomber, or heck 2 ice trolls, or drop the 2nd bear unit for another unit of fireeaters (or drop the champs for the bomber -- horgle has no speed buff so bears are much better with him IMO).
There's been many scenarios where I could not light enough targets on fire for the feat -- an experienced opponent will spread out and screen his high priority targets, in which case you will need good shooting to get to it.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 24, 2018 5:00:31 GMT
I ended up against a novice grymkin player in bump. ARM 20 champs are still awesome, and he forgot about the bears so on turn two I wrecked an empty death knell and a gore hound on the one side, and took out the lantern man and about four hollow men on the other. He would have conceded there, but I talked him into continuing the game, since I hadn't even gotten to test anything. I continued to kick his as on scenario and attrition, but got greedy and didn't run Horgle away from the last Skin & Moans, so I got assassinated while at 4-0 scenario, and two fairly easy to clear points available.
I don't seem to understand Rok, I think I'll downgrade him after a couple games.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Jan 24, 2018 5:53:08 GMT
I don't seem to understand Rok, I think I'll downgrade him after a couple games. I agree that Horgle2 offers nothing to RÖK so he is just heavybeast with pow18 axe and northkin so +1 spd form stone. But Mauler do nearly same job with less points and if you have mauler, Brawler is also northkin but cheaper than RÖK and also 2" melee. RÖK is nearly auto-include with Borka's cos stubling drunk is too good to miss and situational to Jarl (cos swift hunter can give him extra threat range) but for other casters I would choose Mauler, Brawler or GK instead. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 24, 2018 13:59:37 GMT
Right, so I've swapped Rok and chef for a Brawler and Lanyssa, which seems like a good idea. I'm on the fence between her and whelps, but I figure being able to extend threat ranges by 3" will be better for the head game than whelps are for scenario.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 24, 2018 15:10:24 GMT
Arm 20 champs seem like they'll break people's teeth, especially with sanguine bond and retaliatory strike. The arm buff might start on the fire eaters so they could be arm 22 against fire when they get lit up, probably by the rune bearer, and the other spells are fairly obvious. You might swap fire starter to Rok if he is coming on the feat turn, though. I'm inclined to only ambush one unit of bears, as the other and the fire eaters seem like a great alpha strike. So, tell me how I'm wrong! I'm going to try this tonight, and I'll give feedback as soon as i can. ARM 20 champs are better than ARM 18 champs for sure, but does it really change the unit very much? A champ that gets hit by a quality attack will still die unless you split up the damage with sanguine bond. The whole unit has 28 boxes, and chewing through 28 boxes at ARM 20 is not super hard. It will require a minimum on 6 attacks, sure, but i do not think that it changes the survivability of the unit very much. Putting +2 ARM on the fire eaters is plain silly. They are already functionally immune to fire damage from the Runebearer, especially with the stone active. If one guy suffer a dice minus 8 damage roll, who cares really? almost any attack will one shot a fire eater from full health, so if it has only 3-4 boxes left due to you spiking the damage roll from the runebearer it will have very limited effect. Inviolable resolve is a big thing in trolls. We can already have above average ARM with a lot of pieces, and adding +2 on top of that takes those things in to the "silly spectrum" of survivability. ARM 23 Kings, Battle engines and Bouncers. ARM 22 Long riders. Even an ARM 24 EBDT. Those things are seriously hard to kill efficiently. It feels to me like your list does not take full advantage of Horgles (probably) best attribute. Also, how does the HHH replace the Bomber? What would you remove to afford the Mauler? You still need to spend your WB points, so you cant just change them one for the other... I guess my main problem with the list is that you have no super good target for IR. No super good recipient of the feat. No super good recipient of Solid Ground. And no huge base to punch with Horgle to abuse the chain attack. The list itself seems reasonable for sure. You have lots of good things in there. It just feels like the list is not really adapted to the casters particular strengths... I go about list building in a different way. I always want to pick a couple of things that a caster does and try to abuse them as much as possible. Im not saying that is the only way to do it, but that is probably why i thing this list looks a little bland... |
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Post by milehightroll on Jan 24, 2018 18:43:25 GMT
Hello all,
I've been toying with Horgle2 for some time and have settled on the following list:
Theme - Kriel Company
Horgle
-Runebearer
-Glacier King
-Bomber
-Winter Troll
2x Fire Eaters
War Wagon
Min Stone w/ Northkin Elder and Sorcerer
Braylen
The idea with this list is to start with the Stone providing extra speed to the Fire Eaters, GK, and Winter Troll to get them up field faster. IR goes on either the Wagon or the GK. Firestarter goes onto the Bomber, Solid Ground goes up if useful in the matchup. On feat turn, I use the Runebearer, Horgle, and the Fire Eaters to spread as much fire as possible followed by the Bomber hammering key targets. After that, the Stone puts up the +2 damage to Cold and you get fully boosted GK POW16 shots and Winter Troll POW14 spray. Then, the Wagon rumbles in and blows stuff up and gets in the way of any real retaliation. I've found that this list plays pretty well on attrition and has reasonable assassination potential. If you can get the alpha and feat away the threats to the GK the day is probably won.
Cheers
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Post by mydnight on Jan 24, 2018 21:45:31 GMT
Hello all, I've been toying with Horgle2 for some time and have settled on the following list: Theme - Kriel Company Horgle -Runebearer -Glacier King -Bomber -Winter Troll 2x Fire Eaters War Wagon Min Stone w/ Northkin Elder and Sorcerer Braylen The idea with this list is to start with the Stone providing extra speed to the Fire Eaters, GK, and Winter Troll to get them up field faster. IR goes on either the Wagon or the GK. Firestarter goes onto the Bomber, Solid Ground goes up if useful in the matchup. On feat turn, I use the Runebearer, Horgle, and the Fire Eaters to spread as much fire as possible followed by the Bomber hammering key targets. After that, the Stone puts up the +2 damage to Cold and you get fully boosted GK POW16 shots and Winter Troll POW14 spray. Then, the Wagon rumbles in and blows stuff up and gets in the way of any real retaliation. I've found that this list plays pretty well on attrition and has reasonable assassination potential. If you can get the alpha and feat away the threats to the GK the day is probably won. Cheers I dunno. At that point I'd rather just go SoTN and drop braylen and wagon for 2 bears. |
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Post by milehightroll on Jan 25, 2018 0:43:40 GMT
I dunno. At that point I'd rather just go SoTN and drop braylen and wagon for 2 bears. You can't just throw Bears in every list!!!  Also, Horgle likes to go first so the Kriel Company theme benefit is actually pretty nice. |
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jan 25, 2018 1:31:54 GMT
I dunno. At that point I'd rather just go SoTN and drop braylen and wagon for 2 bears. You can't just throw Bears in every list!!! You most definitely can. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jan 25, 2018 1:41:57 GMT
Arm 20 champs seem like they'll break people's teeth, especially with sanguine bond and retaliatory strike. The arm buff might start on the fire eaters so they could be arm 22 against fire when they get lit up, probably by the rune bearer, and the other spells are fairly obvious. You might swap fire starter to Rok if he is coming on the feat turn, though. I'm inclined to only ambush one unit of bears, as the other and the fire eaters seem like a great alpha strike. So, tell me how I'm wrong! I'm going to try this tonight, and I'll give feedback as soon as i can. ARM 20 champs are better than ARM 18 champs for sure, but does it really change the unit very much? A champ that gets hit by a quality attack will still die unless you split up the damage with sanguine bond. The whole unit has 28 boxes, and chewing through 28 boxes at ARM 20 is not super hard. It will require a minimum on 6 attacks, sure, but i do not think that it changes the survivability of the unit very much. Putting +2 ARM on the fire eaters is plain silly. They are already functionally immune to fire damage from the Runebearer, especially with the stone active. If one guy suffer a dice minus 8 damage roll, who cares really? almost any attack will one shot a fire eater from full health, so if it has only 3-4 boxes left due to you spiking the damage roll from the runebearer it will have very limited effect. Inviolable resolve is a big thing in trolls. We can already have above average ARM with a lot of pieces, and adding +2 on top of that takes those things in to the "silly spectrum" of survivability. ARM 23 Kings, Battle engines and Bouncers. ARM 22 Long riders. Even an ARM 24 EBDT. Those things are seriously hard to kill efficiently. It feels to me like your list does not take full advantage of Horgles (probably) best attribute. Also, how does the HHH replace the Bomber? What would you remove to afford the Mauler? You still need to spend your WB points, so you cant just change them one for the other... I guess my main problem with the list is that you have no super good target for IR. No super good recipient of the feat. No super good recipient of Solid Ground. And no huge base to punch with Horgle to abuse the chain attack. The list itself seems reasonable for sure. You have lots of good things in there. It just feels like the list is not really adapted to the casters particular strengths... I go about list building in a different way. I always want to pick a couple of things that a caster does and try to abuse them as much as possible. Im not saying that is the only way to do it, but that is probably why i thing this list looks a little bland... Those are good points, I think. I tend to build from what I own, and unfortunately the only IR targets you mention that I own are bouncers and an earthborn. The HHH for bomber notion was intended to free up beast points (since I recall the bomber having been considered more or less mandatory for him) and get more points into free solos while still setting lots of things on fire, and provide the good IR target and chain ignition target. Next week I plan to borrow a friend's spare huge base. what do y'all think I should proxy it as? My first thoughts are HHH or glacier king, but I can see reasons to go for all three Kings. |
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