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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 23, 2018 14:52:20 GMT
Deller I think a min unit of Blood witches with the Hag still have a place, remember she brings Dispel to the party as well
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Post by tiberius on Jan 23, 2018 14:53:51 GMT
The only place I see Deneghra 1 still maintaining queen status is where you need the DEF debuffs against a DEF skew or want to play infernal machines (haha, I know, I know) and help all the thralls hit. She still polishes turds like no one else, she just cant really do the scourge assassination anymore. Asphyxious doesn't help his army hit, he just has equivalent armor swing potential and is a much better super solo.
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Post by greytemplar on Jan 23, 2018 16:54:26 GMT
Yay. Unyielding doesn't suck on .5" melee models anymore! Bad news is Errants still need a CID to be worth their points Don't think so. They are now a great unit with a disapointing mini-feat but filled to Menoth with support solos and casters that make them a real pain to deal with beyondtheir won self-sac ability. Sure. On paper they seem ok. Till you see that little thing called "Point cost". The cost of an errant boat is so prohibitively absurd relative to what you get. We're paying for Prime Prime Rib, but only getting a Choice New York Strip.
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Post by jisidro on Jan 23, 2018 17:27:54 GMT
You don't think the basic 10 man unit is worth 16pts?
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Post by chillychinaman on Jan 23, 2018 17:40:30 GMT
You don't think the basic 10 man unit is worth 16pts? Difficult with only RNG10 POW10 guns when you can get 12 KE for a little extra. Errants barely carve out a niche for themselves with AD and self-sac. Their support models don't really help or take advantage of those traits and thus only really inflate their costs.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 18:31:11 GMT
You don't think the basic 10 man unit is worth 16pts? I have found success with them. Double errant boat is already a popular testament list. I think the combination of assault, high accuracy (mat 7 and rat6) and decent hitting pow (9 weaponmaster is pretty good on the charge) make the unit worth it. You can project 18" of threat with the bows and assault, making low arm infantry shudder. I really only have 2 issues with errants: 1:The minifeat needs to not dispel friendly buffs. 2:They could really use relentless charge. Paying 5 points to get pathfinder while in a 9" bubble is just meh. Testamnet fixes it for a turn, and vindictus fixes it every turn which is why, if you see errants, its with one of those two casters. The exemplar CiD will probably have us see a price reduction and the minifeat change. I doubt they will get any form of pathfinder within their own unit. Unyielding change is cool though. May consider getting an actual errant seneschal model now
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Post by elladan52 on Jan 23, 2018 19:32:52 GMT
There is no reason they should get a price decrease. They are very appropriately costed for having a decent statline (arm 16 in particular), better-than-average mat and rat, blessed and magical crossbow, a weaponmaster melee weapon, and AD. And of course they have self-sac. 16 points is a very reasonable price to pay for all that.
Their main issue is/was competing with Idriams, and you see them competing for the same space a lot less now given the way theme forces work.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 19:57:17 GMT
There is no reason they should get a price decrease. They are very appropriately costed for having a decent statline (arm 16 in particular), better-than-average mat and rat, blessed and magical crossbow, a weaponmaster melee weapon, and AD. And of course they have self-sac. 16 points is a very reasonable price to pay for all that. Their main issue is/was competing with Idriams, and you see them competing for the same space a lot less now given the way theme forces work. I have played them enough to say they distinguish well enough from idrians. They mostly need a minifeat that does not dispell thier own buffs. Thats really my biggest complaint with them. Idrians are skirmish infantry that can threaten multiple types of targets. Errants are jamming infantry that are good at killing other infantry and can chip damage on jacks/beasts thanks to weaponmaster.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 23, 2018 21:52:06 GMT
Elias' aura should change to EE models beginning their activations in his command. It is way too limiting and fiddly to use currently.
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Post by killroundears on Jan 23, 2018 22:00:40 GMT
There is no reason they should get a price decrease. They are very appropriately costed for having a decent statline (arm 16 in particular), better-than-average mat and rat, blessed and magical crossbow, a weaponmaster melee weapon, and AD. And of course they have self-sac. 16 points is a very reasonable price to pay for all that. Their main issue is/was competing with Idriams, and you see them competing for the same space a lot less now given the way theme forces work. you'd be surprised, i still throw down a unit of idrians in their place in exemplar interdiction lists. the arm is good but not that good because their def is low so errants defensive stats have always seemed bad to me. 12/16 will protect you from blast damage, and then die to rat 5 pow10s, and really die to rat6 pow11s like trencher rifles. at least idrians have the extra point of def in their favour, the mini feat, and repo3. As well as base pathfinder meaning they can abuse terrain better without any support. errants are just outclassed despite having a lot of nice tech on paper
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Post by chillychinaman on Jan 23, 2018 22:27:11 GMT
Elias' aura should change to EE models beginning their activations in his command. It is way too limiting and fiddly to use currently. What you said AND it should be all Exemplar. That way, Interdiction is opened up other casters besides Vindictus and Testament.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 23, 2018 23:00:26 GMT
Elias' aura should change to EE models beginning their activations in his command. It is way too limiting and fiddly to use currently. What you said AND it should be all Exemplar. That way, Interdiction is opened up other casters besides Vindictus and Testament. Well there is rhupert, but it would be really nice to more than 1 unit have access to pathfinder... Also I'm curious what we think about vengers and what kind of buff there are likely to receive. +1str to match stormlances seems reasonable.
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Post by gobber on Jan 23, 2018 23:21:00 GMT
I certainly wouldn't mind a buff when CID comes round (especially the minifeat) but errants have something of a home in the protectorate side of the llaelese resistance where they don't compete with idrians and the 2 unit limit discourages small units like daughters/KE. Pathfinder, reposition, & feign death are all great buffs for them, and they appreciate the likely presence of rhupert/ragman/gorman. Ash, Crosse2, and Macbain all have interesting buffs for them.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Jan 24, 2018 14:05:30 GMT
The only place I see Deneghra 1 still maintaining queen status is where you need the DEF debuffs against a DEF skew or want to play infernal machines (haha, I know, I know) and help all the thralls hit. She still polishes turds like no one else, she just cant really do the scourge assassination anymore. Asphyxious doesn't help his army hit, he just has equivalent armor swing potential and is a much better super solo. He has equivalent armor swing potential every turn of the game, a much better Assassination game since he can strip focus/fury camp, he screws with Hordes Fury Management thanks to Spectral Leech, he brings an RFP nuke, and he can potentially Cloud Wall. Even if you wanna go Infernal Machines you’re probably not bringing Deneghra1 over someone like Coven or Goreshade2 who’s feats can actually deliver Brute Thralls. Let’s be honest, Cryx doesn’t care about turd polishing anymore. Cryx just throws its turds on the shelf nowadays and plays quality units like everyone else in the form of Banes & Satyxis. The infantry clearing abilities in the game have gotten so good that simply flooding the board with 100 Mechanithralls doesn’t work anymore.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 24, 2018 14:19:53 GMT
There is no reason they should get a price decrease. They are very appropriately costed for having a decent statline (arm 16 in particular), better-than-average mat and rat, blessed and magical crossbow, a weaponmaster melee weapon, and AD. And of course they have self-sac. 16 points is a very reasonable price to pay for all that. Their main issue is/was competing with Idriams, and you see them competing for the same space a lot less now given the way theme forces work. I have played them enough to say they distinguish well enough from idrians. They mostly need a minifeat that does not dispell thier own buffs. Thats really my biggest complaint with them. Idrians are skirmish infantry that can threaten multiple types of targets. Errants are jamming infantry that are good at killing other infantry and can chip damage on jacks/beasts thanks to weaponmaster. The Errants mini-feat just beggars belief at how stupid it is, especially in a faction with Defenders Ward. I would just cut the mini-feat and make the Officer or Standard just grant Sacred Ward instead.
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