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Post by trollsareblue on Apr 3, 2017 22:12:21 GMT
I don't see that making a dent in the competitive infantry swarm lists (what few there are). Domiano will feat and laugh at you. Rockets will blow the crap out of you. And the Zerkova1 list that won in Seattle will take it on the chin, then eat your face. At best, you might win on clock. How does Damiano (with an infantry build) feat laugh at POW 12 weaponmasters with berserk and overtake? Fennblades still one shot merc infantry so they kill all of the infantry with ease even with +3 ARM. Granted that the jacks are less trivial, but i dont see that as a huge issue in the long run. Now playing against shooting (even infantry based shooting) is not what you want to do with this list. That was not what i meant with "infantry swarms". You're partially right. I was thinking of Surefoot, not the feat. You can't kill what you can't hit, even if they manage to live through the shooting. I stand by my original assertion that BOH is bad. Actually, to be fair, the theme might be fine. Troll infantry is bad.
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Post by cayterpius on Apr 4, 2017 0:08:30 GMT
Wild Speculation time! Looking at other themes that have come out we can have a look at what we think the Northkin theme will be. Obviously this is all guess work, but it might be worth a shot: Units useable: Beasts: - All Non character Beasts - Rok Units - Champions - Fire Eaters - Longriders - Krielstone + UA Solos - Fell caller hero - Sorcerer - Skaldi - Northkin Shaman - Runebearer - Champion Hero - Horthol - Whelps - Runebearer Battle Engine: War Wagon Benefits: - All models in this army gain immunity cold. - For every 20 point of Northkin solos or units gain a free solo I think these first 2 are very likely. The third bonus? I could see: - Champions have 8 boxes - Opponents models lose Advance Deploy I don't think Northkin units can gain advanced move without Fire eaters destroying the world unfortunately. Trying to remember what is classified as Northkin but under this hypothetical you would currently need to take 2x FE's and 2x Shaman to meet the 20 points to get Skaldi for free ... I'm assuming that you're assuming that more Northkin models will be released with the Northkin theme. Personally I'm hoping that the theme doesn't just revolve around Borka. Whilst thematic and appropriate, and hopefully bringing Bearka some of the love everyone wants, it would be a theme for essentially 2 warcasters. Maybe (wild speculation time!) we'll get a new Northkin warcaster to go with it as well? Does anyone really know when we can expect any news or for Northkin theme to hit CID? We all thought it would be after Grymkin but that's going to be the Steamroller pack now and there's no Troll releases in the schedule as far as I can see.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 4, 2017 1:50:36 GMT
I'm not even sure if this archetype is THAT bad into gunlines if you're running 2x chronicler. Fenns with Concealment and Feign Death (that you can get back up with your Fel Caller on the next turn) can be annoying for your opponent.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Apr 4, 2017 7:43:09 GMT
Trying to remember what is classified as Northkin but under this hypothetical you would currently need to take 2x FE's and 2x Shaman to meet the 20 points to get Skaldi for free ... I'm assuming that you're assuming that more Northkin models will be released with the Northkin theme. I mean why take a sarcastic tone if you admit you haven't checked the cards? Skaldi makes a unit of Champions Northkin so in theory you could get 2 free solos after adding Skaldi and Champions. , but yes based on how they've been talking I expect the Northkin theme book to feature Northkin models. I would be super excited to see an alternate UA for the Kriel warriors that makes them Northkin and gives them some cool effect. I think PP is missing a trick by not copying the Black Dragon's idea.
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Post by Trollock on Apr 4, 2017 7:58:31 GMT
You're partially right. I was thinking of Surefoot, not the feat. You can't kill what you can't hit, even if they manage to live through the shooting. I stand by my original assertion that BOH is bad. Actually, to be fair, the theme might be fine. Troll infantry is bad. MAT 9 Fennblades probably hit often enough...
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Post by TrollBossJusmu on Apr 5, 2017 7:07:19 GMT
Asuming the theme book comes with 2-3 new releases i would be hoping for new unit and maybe warbeast or 2
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Apr 5, 2017 7:32:18 GMT
I assume that Northkin book in not coming shortly, so not expecting any new releases with theme. I think theme will be pdf document like factions that don't have book yet. But I think good start for northkin theme would be Borka2's MK2 tier. That way it would allow nothkins (naturally), pygs, scouts, longriders, stone and krielwarriors. Also warwagon would be allowed. I really like to see that theme allows one unit/battle-engine to be northkin. As benefits " - All models in this army gain immunity cold. - For every 20 point of Northkin solos or units gain a free "medium-based" solo " are likely.
Advance move to all fire-eaters would be too good, but I think ambush would not be that broken. But what I really want to see is some benefit to all Northkins so Borka and Horgle can benefit of it.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Apr 5, 2017 8:04:27 GMT
I assume that Northkin book in not coming shortly, so not expecting any new releases with theme. I think theme will be pdf document like factions that don't have book yet. But I think good start for northkin theme would be Borka2's MK2 tier. That way it would allow nothkins (naturally), pygs, scouts, longriders, stone and krielwarriors. Also warwagon would be allowed. I really like to see that theme allows one unit/battle-engine to be northkin. As benefits " - All models in this army gain immunity cold. - For every 20 point of Northkin solos or units gain a free "medium-based" solo " are likely. Advance move to all fire-eaters would be too good, but I think ambush would not be that broken. But what I really want to see is some benefit to all Northkins so Borka and Horgle can benefit of it. Why would you assume the new book isn't coming soon? They've said that Northkin theme will be on CID soon and they've said they will start releasing Theme books in August. All signs point to us being one of the first theme books based on their schedule for Northkin CID and the fact our forces book came out first.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 5, 2017 15:18:56 GMT
I don't see that making a dent in the competitive infantry swarm lists (what few there are). Domiano will feat and laugh at you. Rockets will blow the crap out of you. And the Zerkova1 list that won in Seattle will take it on the chin, then eat your face. At best, you might win on clock. How does Damiano (with an infantry build) feat laugh at POW 12 weaponmasters with berserk and overtake? Fennblades still one shot merc infantry so they kill all of the infantry with ease even with +3 ARM. Granted that the jacks are less trivial, but i dont see that as a huge issue in the long run. Now playing against shooting (even infantry based shooting) is not what you want to do with this list. That was not what i meant with "infantry swarms". So you kill the infantry on the feat turn then repo the Fenns to jam the jacks and move the beasts into better positions?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 5, 2017 15:21:37 GMT
I'm not even sure if this archetype is THAT bad into gunlines if you're running 2x chronicler. Fenns with Concealment and Feign Death (that you can get back up with your Fel Caller on the next turn) can be annoying for your opponent. There's no loophole to get out of Feign Death is there? You just have to get into melee? So Rift or Grim's feat maybe? Hmm...
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Post by Trollock on Apr 5, 2017 19:44:53 GMT
How does Damiano (with an infantry build) feat laugh at POW 12 weaponmasters with berserk and overtake? Fennblades still one shot merc infantry so they kill all of the infantry with ease even with +3 ARM. Granted that the jacks are less trivial, but i dont see that as a huge issue in the long run. Now playing against shooting (even infantry based shooting) is not what you want to do with this list. That was not what i meant with "infantry swarms". So you kill the infantry on the feat turn then repo the Fenns to jam the jacks and move the beasts into better positions? I dont know. Im not playing the list Fennblades do a lot of work against infantry even if it is not the feat turn, and once the infantry is gone, the heavies or the champions should have no problems to remove any heavies.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 6, 2017 10:25:07 GMT
This could be quite nice with the free cloud terrain. That combined with both Shamans could block LOS to the beasts on the approach and force the opponent to go into melee with Champs in Star Crossed, and I'm already 2 inches further up the board. Or if they have a lot of spells and guns, brick up behind the cloud wall to cover most of the army. And of course, all of these models are amazing on the feat turn. Fire Eaters are more flexible here, as they can either forge ahead and go after targets of opportunity or lie in wait under the protection of Star Crossed. If the points worked out better, I'd consider Warders instead of the second Earthborn, but I want to try this first anyway. I don't want to mess with the War Wagon until I see how that goes in CID. No Fenns sucks but I can see why they did that. And I'm still not taking a Winter Troll. And if the Northkin Grenadier also makes clouds, yikes... All in all, not too shabby! What do you guys think? conflictchamber.com/#b71l5a9D5-5-6GfJfJ6M6O0k0mezez6kbKTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Northern Winter (Calandra 1) Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] Fell Caller Hero [0] Northkin Shaman [4] Northkin Shaman [4] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Trollkin Champion Hero [0] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Trollkin Champions (max) [17] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5]
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 6, 2017 10:47:33 GMT
And it's pretty crazy being able to take Rok with Doomy 2 in a theme, but you basically don't get any free solos that way unless you take KW to screen I guess? Which seems kind of redundant with the clouds. Minimum Warders + Stone comes to 19 points ugh. #themeproblems Still, Rok and +2 deployment could easily be huge. conflictchamber.com/#b71b539D5-5-057nfJfJ0k0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Northern Winter (Doomshaper 2) Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Mulg the Ancient [19] - Rok [21] Northkin Shaman [4] Northkin Shaman [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] As opposed to: conflictchamber.com/#b71b539D5-5-057nfJfJ0k0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Northern Winter (Doomshaper 2) Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Mulg the Ancient [19] - Rok [21] Troll Whelps [4] Northkin Shaman [4] Northkin Shaman [4] Fell Caller Hero [0] Kriel Warriors (max) [11] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] I dunno about that...
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Post by cayterpius on Apr 11, 2017 1:04:08 GMT
Trying to remember what is classified as Northkin but under this hypothetical you would currently need to take 2x FE's and 2x Shaman to meet the 20 points to get Skaldi for free ... I'm assuming that you're assuming that more Northkin models will be released with the Northkin theme. I mean why take a sarcastic tone if you admit you haven't checked the cards? Skaldi makes a unit of Champions Northkin so in theory you could get 2 free solos after adding Skaldi and Champions. , but yes based on how they've been talking I expect the Northkin theme book to feature Northkin models. I would be super excited to see an alternate UA for the Kriel warriors that makes them Northkin and gives them some cool effect. I think PP is missing a trick by not copying the Black Dragon's idea. Uh ... I wasn't being sarcastic dude. Just pointing out we need more Northkin labelled models for a theme to require us filling points with them. For the record, I like the Kriel UA idea. In a very non sarcastic way. Just so we're clear.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 12, 2017 0:10:45 GMT
It's probably a good thing that no one responded to my terrible April Fool's joke.
Seriously, though, I do think that we will actually be able to use Rok in the theme, especially after NQ #71 and the feature there. Another thing is the Fire Eaters- being able to use them in a theme could be a big deal, especially if high DEF and/or infantry is a force in the meta by then. And I really have heard rumors about some kind of concealment or cloud, or maybe that is not the theme, but the new solo.
Those lists might not be far off after all.
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