|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Jan 19, 2018 12:15:18 GMT
Do you guys have any insight on this, especially as it pertains to the Battle Bears? I can see why they do not ambush with Madrak 1 and a Glacier King, and similarly (if perhaps less so) with Borka 2's concealment, but how much does this change with casters? How about scenarios? I would think that Spread the Net, in particular, would make ambush golden. Do you ever ambush one unit and AD the other?
|
|
mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Jan 19, 2018 13:55:18 GMT
I've never not ambushed, but I should think that terrain placement would be an important factor in this decision. I also haven't played them outside the Jarl list where the ambush threat is very useful to pack the enemies together for the champs to murder.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnaa on Jan 19, 2018 15:03:45 GMT
So when I play grim1 in sotn I ambush 1 unit keep another back so they can threat anything middle of table
Most of the time I ambush then. They are so scary and forces people to play towards the middle. It's a powerful tool you can use to dictate the game and where they will play. Also contesting w them is really good
|
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jan 19, 2018 20:29:43 GMT
Lots of factors here, but if you go first, the bears WILL be a threat on turn 2. If you ambush, they might not be a threat, cause no one is in range. Having two units that can ambush in and collapse a flank is incredibly powerful though. I have no hard and fast rules, so i am still experimenting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bomma on Jan 21, 2018 22:31:45 GMT
I think it would depend on what you opponent has in the backfield that is nice and juicy and or how they setup?
Ambushing is brilliant and probably doesn't have a hard and fast rule?
B.
|
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Jan 22, 2018 13:07:21 GMT
If they have easy access to stealth granting terrain from AD or from caster/GK then I prefer them to AD rather than ambush. Also norhtkin elder's speed or str bonus does wonders on them, and ambush tends to be too far away. I can see ambush scaring certain opponent's lists though.
|
|
|
|
Post by ikeda on Jan 22, 2018 15:18:32 GMT
I am personally finding that when I hold my bears to Ambush, my opponents stick to the central 30" of the board. So when they do come in (turn 2) I generally have to run them to get them into the contest. Some of the scenarios are better for this than others. And I do somewhat enjoy keeping people controlled. But 20pts worth? I'm not sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ajax on Jan 22, 2018 21:50:42 GMT
Played a few games over the weekend as well, and I'm finding pretty much exactly what others are saying. The Bears are good enough on their own, but unsupported without a guaranteed charge, they're too expensive of a unit to just be throwing away. Having them AD and have access to the stone's +2STR or +1SPD just feels better for me, especially if I'm playing with Borka2 to grant stealth to deliver them.
FWIW, I ended up ambushing them for both of my games this weekend. They fell short in effectiveness vs. a Midas + Brigands list (too many bodies to chew through), but did a fair amount of work on Orion + Assimilators.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phlushot on Jan 22, 2018 22:09:09 GMT
Having finally gotten a chance to put mine on the table I was fairly unimpressed with them ambushing. I think there are situations where it is a great option but my plan going forward is to AD them unless I see an obvious target for them. They are scary by themselves but when you add the Stone and/or caster buffs onto them they are pretty ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by ikeda on Jan 23, 2018 0:09:17 GMT
Having finally gotten a chance to put mine on the table I was fairly unimpressed with them ambushing. I think there are situations where it is a great option but my plan going forward is to AD them unless I see an obvious target for them. They are scary by themselves but when you add the Stone and/or caster buffs onto them they are pretty ridiculous. But if the Stone is close enough to give them effect, then you didn't/shouldn't have Ambushed. You'd have done better to AD them and run 14" turn 1. |
|
|
|
Post by grabsnikk on Jan 23, 2018 0:14:40 GMT
For me it is a case of whether the opponent outnumbers my own force enough so that they could effectively wrap around the flanks of my force. If they can, then I will usually ambush.
Also if you have a reliable way to get Hunters Mark on something that will be hanging around near the edge of the board then I also ambush then. Most opponents will ask about the threat of the Bears and will stay just outside of 14". Many opponents will forget about Hunters Mark.
|
|
|
|
Post by gobber on Jan 23, 2018 0:41:30 GMT
I'll generally ambush ~75% of the time if going first. When going second I only ambush ~1/3 of the time.
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288 
|
Post by whydak on Jan 23, 2018 9:34:18 GMT
Have you ever tried to ambush 1 unit and deploy 1 unit in normal way? Never played them and I'm just starting trollblods so I'm curious what you think about it. When playing Legion I often decided to deploy ambush on turn 3 when no good targets were present in range turn eariel. Often I could pressure opoonents with other threats to move more to board edge sides which could be hard on turn 2 when you usually just throw cheap pieces to contest. When the fight is at peak level you can't focus on everyting and often just forget ambush unit is still waiting. EDIT: Shamless plug and sucesfull turn 3 ambush example  warroom.pl/en/battle-report-twins-vs-baldur1/ |
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 13:48:32 GMT
IME with ambush there is never a guaranteed formula. Its always dependent on your opponent. Bears have a few situations where I do think ambush is the obvious solution though.
1: Spread the net: The flag and bottom rectangular zones will be vulnrable to bear attack. One of the best ways to win spread the net is to force the opponent to stay within the middle of the table.
2: Stealth ignoring decent pow shooting
3: your opponent massively out threatens you.
Outside of that its really dependent on what you are facing and how your list preforms. I would say you will find yourself ambushing more often than you find yourself using AD. but even that is list dependent on what you are personally running.
|
|
mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Jan 23, 2018 15:17:15 GMT
I have a buddy who likes to run his cavalry up the flank, and I've copied that to some success with Horthol. Wouldn't it be fun to run some high value models up the flank knowing that if they go in on them, the bears will clear or avenge them?
|
|
