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Post by onijet01 on Jan 17, 2018 2:41:16 GMT
I know i can be arrogent but im legitimately wanting to know what they need. As it stands they cost about 3 times as much as a average heavy (12-14 pts) and do about the same work load. Yah they survive a bit longer but it feels most are lacking something.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Jan 17, 2018 3:44:02 GMT
I'd say a reduction in points of 2-4 in most cases and maybe handful more bxs or 1 more armor. Maybe greater reach 3"?
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jan 17, 2018 4:26:02 GMT
Being immune to Shadow fire would be a good start. And maybe other effects too?
Better resource management. Not sure exactly how or what, but they need to feel like you get more out of their points.
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Post by AdeptusB on Jan 17, 2018 5:28:10 GMT
I've always thought that Gargantuans should have TWO animi, to partially offset the reduction in number of Warbeasts they entail.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 17, 2018 7:48:03 GMT
They're mostly fine, they're immune to many effects and are very durable, so that they can usually get repaired at least once. Many of them see play in certain lists, especially if there is a buff/debuff available to support them.
Like you said, they mostly need a way to get slightly more output. Allowing them to gain up to 4 focus for Colossals and be FURY 5 for Gargantuans would probably fix that.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Jan 17, 2018 8:28:06 GMT
I don’t think an ‘across the board’ fix like battle engines is the right answer. Some colossals/gargantuans are very playable, and fill an important spot in the factions- notably trolls, minions, mercs and circle (well, one of circle...)
Unfortunately though, they are in the minority, and most colossals/gargantuans do need a fix. I think this is best done on a case-by-case basis though. For example, the glacier king picked up the ‘northkin’ tag and better utility on it’s ranged weapon, and now is a lot more appealing. Most colossals probably need a much bigger buff that this, but I’d like to see each one addressed individually during CID to fill a faction niche, than just get cheaper or get more boxes.
It’ll be interesting to see how the legion CID plays out, with both gargantuans being buffed.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jan 17, 2018 9:07:36 GMT
I agree with tomw, hard to make one change to all of them.
Generally Collosals seem way better than Gargantuans imo. Gargs need better guns in comparison, or maybe have dual attack, or better animi ..
PP have to be carefull though, enough buffs and the meta will reflect it really quick (just like with Battleengines). Do we want Cryx and Grymkin to be even better?? They love to fight against huge bases.
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Post by borderprince on Jan 17, 2018 9:23:56 GMT
I don’t think an ‘across the board’ fix like battle engines is the right answer. Some colossals/gargantuans are very playable, and fill an important spot in the factions- notably trolls, minions, mercs and circle (well, one of circle...) Unfortunately though, they are in the minority, and most colossals/gargantuans do need a fix. I think this is best done on a case-by-case basis though. Exactly. Gargantuans generally still have the problem of generating less fury for their warlocks, but colossals are not stuck with a universal problem. For example, in Khador, Conquest is really very playable with quite a few casters. I don't think it needs anything to be worth taking. But Victor is less desirable. It doesn't provide the same form of board control, the main gun just isn't accurate enough and you don't generally want to exploit its long range, because it will only really pull its weight if it makes it to melee (lucky scatter + fire based assassinations being the exception to that).
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 17, 2018 9:29:10 GMT
I think most are fine tbh
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Post by beardmonk on Jan 17, 2018 9:53:59 GMT
Gargs and Colossal are designed to be very powerful models that give you powerfull options on the tabletop.
However that are not meant to be unkillable. I explained to a passing 40K player that having a huge base in your list was not the same as placing a Forgeworld Warlord Titan on the board. A Huge base model should be a risk/reward decision when it come to list creation. You get a powerful model but you are committing a large percentage of your list to is and maybe having to accept a certain playstyle with it.
For the most part I think a lot of the Gargs and Colossal are in the right envelope when it comes to power.
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Jan 17, 2018 11:01:05 GMT
I've always thought that Gargantuans should have TWO animi, to partially offset the reduction in number of Warbeasts they entail. I was thinking three, to reflect the fact that they have three aspects. So they could have a body animus, a mind animus, and a spirit animus.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jan 17, 2018 11:16:52 GMT
Some are good, some are less so, exactly as with other model types. Nothing inherently wrong with the entire category of COlossals/Gargantuans, IMO. I'd modify them or not on case by case basis.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jan 17, 2018 13:06:01 GMT
In my opinion they need to have at least 4 focus/fury each or an abilities to give pseudo focus/fury. Maybe even 5. They cost as much as 3 heavies and have output of less than 2, higher pow does not compensate for lower attack number, they need bigger output.
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Post by tiberius on Jan 17, 2018 13:20:13 GMT
I am of the opinion that most of them are fine as is with few exceptions. And those few can be fixed with +1 fury or some other ability added. When I field them, they typically have enough of a board presence to pay for themselves, even if they don't do their "points worth" in damage. I would like to see each one have some sort of defensive mechanism or some sort of army assist ability. Mountain king heals and has a DEF debuff spray, Glacier king hands out concealment and has freezing fists. The sepulcher creates brute thralls that can shield guard and has a ton of guns. The list goes on. Now there are a few that need either a point adjustment or some sort of utility ability but for the most part, I think they are fine.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 17, 2018 13:51:13 GMT
I think the legion and Troll CiD's has shown us that Gargantuans are getting band aid fixes through the CiD process. So far the Sea king, Glacier king, Blight Bringer, and Archangel have been or are in CiD and they seem to be getting very meaningful changes.
There is no one fix, the standard rule-set for gargs are great but there are some gargs with glaring issues.
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