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Post by sand20go on Apr 18, 2018 22:29:31 GMT
I want to post up a couple of things if anyone (hah!) is lurking about some of the things I am learning...........
A) Don't always look for overrun assissination. You out threat so much on the table that sometimes you should just go for the big alpha after clearing chaff with the snipers. Plus your opponent is likely terrified of your threat ranges and that provides opportunities to start scoring.
B) It is really wise advice at the start of this thread - you want to keep multiple heavy hitters within 6 inches of strakov. Casting overrun (or superiority) BEFORE moving is your friend. Your main issue is that this causes bunching up. That can be a challenge.
C) Finally don't get too conservative with the forgeseers. They are great and not that bad at tanking. They often can get the empower they need to give out while still hugging the flag.
Things I haven't tried yet? CHARGING with the Forgeseers under feat under the theory that you gotta go strong or not go at all ;-)
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Post by skathrex on Apr 19, 2018 13:04:24 GMT
Hah!! Take that Commrades. Played Will P. today!! Lost but a close and hysterical Strakov game (into Malakus with Sevy0 who, shall we say, hits like truck on feat turn). First issue was a blocked charge lane (by millimeters) with my jugger who was designated overrun guy. Second was a failure of epic proportions of actually ACTIVATING KELL to shoot rather than simply run to the flag like the champ he was. Plus I missed a third win option at the end of using an overrun on strakov himself to get to the objective. But I LOVE this list and this guy. So much fun and such a thinking mans caster. If I had a brain I might be good ;-) The dust settles, and I have clear picture now, after seeing your post on Twitter, FB and Lormahordes^^ I actually think the meta changes helped him as well as Eilishs Puppetmaster beeing a huge help. I am running this atm and waiting for the CID Rules release: conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0x7c7wkWkWk-j6hFhF8y86chchKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Strakhov 1) Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Behemoth [25] - Juggernaut [13] - Juggernaut [13] - Victor [34] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Victor feels really nice, because you can trigger Overrun so easily and effectively.
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Post by auraco on Apr 19, 2018 13:23:06 GMT
A Strakhov list with no grolar?!?! Heresy!!! Nah but seriously, let us know how it goes, I've been curious about using both behemoth and a colossal in the same list, never actually got around to doing it. Also I strongly agree with point A sand20go is making. As long as you have jacks on the table assassination is usually always on the table but only going for that win condition is not the best way to play Strakhov in my opinion. As long as you haven't used your feat people will stay far away and you can use that "control element" to start scoring and play the scenario game. Strakhov is actually one of the rare khador caster who can make his jack force quick enough to not struggle to get a jaws list in the zones.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 19, 2018 16:00:58 GMT
So far I have noticed a couple of interesting questions.
A) To Viktor or not to Viktor.
Some of this is on me. I don't HAVE a Viktor. But it isn't even after CID a clear choice to me.
1) Viktor is more likely to get a clip but it isn't an obvious one.
One shot vs. 2. 4 inche vs. 5. 20 inches vs. 14. Lots to consider. Viktor's odds are higher but I wonder if by THAT much. Moreover, Behemoth with 2 shots IS more likely to shoot out a multi-wound model in that ARM 15-17 range. The Autocannons are there but at RAT 4/Rng 10 (even with D3) I think you are in trouble if you are relying on them to trigger it.
2) Viktor can't overrun himself.
For me this is the big one. I WANT _ALL_ my jacks to provide a vector and all my jacks to provide for an opportunity to trigger it. The Colossal rule about no out of activation movement means that I lose that additional threat.....
3) Sentry and Superiority require a hot swap - stressing even more our focus 6 caster.
Nothing says I HAVE to hot swap but then I have to make a choice. He never has enough focus ANYWAY in Jaws.
4) Viktor strictly better into Haley2 and Many Gravediggers lists.
I really need him on the table. SUperiority creates 15 inch threat - out threatening the Stormwall/Hurricane. Seige Mortar is a great tool against her, from fire to rough terrain to flaring.
5) Probably Viktor LESS good into Nemo3. Fewer targets means more concentrated effort on removing him. Though I think with the nerf Nemo3 is in deep trouble into Strakov generally as the old man can be killed relatively easily if your jacks can weather the electricity post-feat.
My own preferences/experiences.....
A) I want solos. More the merrier (I have 4) And I would like at least 2 units (I have 4, mechanics and widows along with double elminitators). for scoring. As Auroca points out, there is scenario game here. Will P. should have lost badly on scenario when he got worried about me alpha'ing him and just shot off one of my throw away juggers on the bottom of 2. I want to be absolutely on "my" flag on bottom of 2 to start putting pressure.
B) I want mechanics. I lost 2 games because shooting early on crippled systems of my jacks when I did not have them. Min is fine as long as I have decent coverage. The key here is that I want to bring back systems lost so that I can keep my run alive.
C) Kell+Marksman+Sentry is so good.
You have the oppportunity to take out 12 boxes a turn. That is huge. Be even BETTER with the reduced cost Spriggan (who will be subbing in for my Grolar I THINK post -CID). And I want to point out something _I_ did not realize. Swift hunter triggers on the sentry shot. That is some good jank for even more scenario pressure as you can realistically get to a flag or contest a zone with the marksman from a long way away.
The strange thing is why Kell, who likes forests, doesn't have pathfinder. Good to have on your objective (probably the mandatory chocie unless list locked into play incorp.
D) Clouds suck
See spriggan substitute strategy. Really ANYTHING that denies LOS is a problem for Strakove as he only gets the speed buff and the truly great alpha if he can SEE things. Juris figured this out with Trencher clouds. Spriggan will be a god send here - coming close to neutering that play once the points come down and the Dual attack is added.
E) Kodiak?
Something I have not gotten use out of and I still feel like I should is Strakov's cloud. This list (like a lot of Khador) can get hurt by long range shooting. Jank with Kodiaks, Clouds, overrun, and hitting one with Strakov's bomb sounds possibly good.
G) Finally, but perhaps Most and most important - I find it Vitally important to have multiple jacks within 6 inches of Strakov. This is a great balancing act because too many makes for a very cluttered key turn and that shuts down angles. But too few and you really limit your order of activation options.
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Post by Evola on Apr 20, 2018 6:34:10 GMT
I'm reading all your thoughts and experiences playing Strakov and I get really really excited to try him out.
Do you guys have any video/picture battle reports with Strakov to share?
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Post by grimworks on Apr 20, 2018 8:34:46 GMT
I've done a couple for CID though I think I was only happy with maybe only the performance in 1-2 games. Also Sorscha0 is really good with Strakhov, doesn't exactly extend feat turn but her ability to amplify the output on non-feat turns is really potent and opens up a lot more active play. I would really love to test him more and finally have time to writeup that last bit on formations here but life's been a tad rough so haven't exactly had all the time for warmahordes.
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Post by Evola on Apr 20, 2018 8:50:17 GMT
I've done a couple for CID though I think I was only happy with maybe only the performance in 1-2 games. Also Sorscha0 is really good with Strakhov, doesn't exactly extend feat turn but her ability to amplify the output on non-feat turns is really potent and opens up a lot more active play. I would really love to test him more and finally have time to writeup that last bit on formations here but life's been a tad rough so haven't exactly had all the time for warmahordes. Same problem here. Getting a game every other week or so. I really like your writeup so hope you find the time to continue and elaborate it. Keep the good work up
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Post by skathrex on Apr 20, 2018 9:07:40 GMT
I'm reading all your thoughts and experiences playing Strakov and I get really really excited to try him out. Do you guys have any video/picture battle reports with Strakov to share? Sadly no recent ones. Basics are he stays central so he has your "overrun" trigger jack in 6" befor moving, and he should be able to advance forward. From there its experience and vectors. auraco I know, I know. You love the Grolar, and I don't dislike him myself but too many expensive jacks are hard to fit into the list. You could swap both Juggers and mechs for Grolar and marauder if you wanted too. I agree with both of you. Assasination is a plan, but shouldn't be your main goal. Its something your opponent should and has to respect which works to give you an advantage. I have played the list a couple times and probably will again this weekend. It works really well. Pre themes chickenslayer wrote about Strakov that he wants to soften the Jacks a bit before going in. This list goes back to that play style. Mostly Victor triggers overrun, I overrun a Juggernaut after I shot his target with Behemoth. Yuri workes really well in the list because he often can put a lot of pressure on your opponent while beeing pretty safe. What this list also has which I really like is punshing power. Behemoth with Pow 12 AP Fists AND a Victor with Pow 23 kills a lot of stuff dead, while the shooting and Eliminators can kill a lot of infantry. To the Victor in general I can only say I hope he stays as he was end of CID. The main reason why hes good is his huge range. Previously with Strakov1 you ran into the problem that many armie didn't give you any targets that you could use to trigger ranged overrun. Either because the mostly ran Jacks/Beasts/hard targets or just because they kept their squishy stuff out of range. With Victors 20" range thats not the issue anymore, because he can shoot the enemy support to trigger overrun, which 90% of armys still have in one form or another. THATs the main reason I like him so much with Strakov1. 15" charging thread is plenty enough and Superiority and Sentry are really good with him. Another aspect is the Fire 5" template. Everything thats not killed by a pow 8 blast burns over the next couple turns. Medium bases and caverly HATE that. The victor single handedly turns the Troll matchup around if they don't bring their old stone UA, because champs burn really good. Have a weekend of testing ahead, will try to report back. Oh and yes, Strak likes all the Units and solos in Jaws. Sentry on Marksman is soo good. If I don't run Victor I would always run a Marksman.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Apr 20, 2018 10:53:31 GMT
now just think of Yuri with boundless charge an always 13" threat from the AD line with his charging weapon master thresher attack, yum!
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