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Post by macdaddy on Jan 25, 2018 0:04:36 GMT
PP seem to be going back and forth a lot with the chosen. I wonder what the final outcome will be. Arm 17 does nothing against heavy powered shooting but will frustrate lists with even boosted pwr 12s for shooting (assuming blight bringer -- which seems compulsory now the way PP keeps buffing it with every revision). But didn’t you know! The B.B. is 32 points so we don’t actualky consider what it does in chosen stats.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jan 25, 2018 0:06:58 GMT
PP seem to be going back and forth a lot with the chosen. I wonder what the final outcome will be. Arm 17 does nothing against heavy powered shooting but will frustrate lists with even boosted pwr 12s for shooting (assuming blight bringer -- which seems compulsory now the way PP keeps buffing it with every revision). But didn’t you know! The B.B. is 32 points so we don’t actualky consider what it does in chosen stats. Can't wait until Circle gets a CID, and the Storm Raptor drops 6 points, gains an Armor, a MAT, ROF 2, and a useful animus. Seriously, I think they need to take a step back and look at what they're creating with the BB. the BE CID shows that PP sometimes has trouble balancing these splashy centerpiece models.
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Post by killroundears on Jan 25, 2018 0:17:01 GMT
While there are some detractors to the idea, i think this week of CID has reinforced what a lot of people feel - that CID is power creep and PPs version of codex creep.
Not everything CID comes out the most powerful thing in the game but it undeniably pushes the envelope each time and begins to erode models who are not as 'up to date. This was the case with the battle engines for example, they just outpreform.
The BB, the chosen etc are representing a new standard of model. Very low point cost for what the BB provides and the chosen who were already durable become eve moreso. Anamags small nerf is barely a concession when her kit is so complete and flexible.
Very worried by this trend PP continue. I hope they will reverse course with making every CID produce 9 and 10/10 results instead of more reasonable ones
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 25, 2018 0:23:13 GMT
It doesn’t help that when we someone posts a battle report with balance concerns players get on there and talk about how” the report wasn’t good” or “you didn’t show that” or “your skewing evidence”
I’m very frustrated with this weeks changes.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 25, 2018 0:27:55 GMT
I will reserve judgement for the final version post-CiD; after all by considering extremes they get good data too. However it is a fact that cid models and themes tend to become the most popular/powerful, hence we may not survive a second round of theme CiDs for each faction...as it is it looks like it will take 2 years+ for all factions to have 1 proper go at CiD and the bar may be too high by then and a full reset may be required.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jan 25, 2018 1:10:55 GMT
It doesn’t help that when we someone posts a battle report with balance concerns players get on there and talk about how” the report wasn’t good” or “you didn’t show that” or “your skewing evidence” I’m very frustrated with this weeks changes. My favorite is 'you had a hypothesis, so clearly you are biased'.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jan 25, 2018 1:13:22 GMT
I agree with the above. CID just takes sooooo long atm. It took PP more than a year and a half to realize/admit the Ravagore, Carnivean etc. are too expensive in mk3. Imagine how long it will take when we get another new faction, more Christmas releases for everyone and new models on a monthly basis. Gonna take forever... Someone told me they had a CID like process back in mk1, I wonder why they did'nt continue with that...
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Post by mydnight on Jan 25, 2018 1:28:18 GMT
Having said all that, imagine how much worse it would all be without a CiD
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Post by albertairish on Jan 25, 2018 2:07:00 GMT
"Please refrain from hyperbole regarding this unit."
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jan 25, 2018 2:31:12 GMT
So...Can Iron Fang Cavalry get an update now? Can they finally drop the lance rule?
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Post by minmaximus on Jan 25, 2018 2:35:01 GMT
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that the nightmare scenario- +2 ARM caster, Blightbringer, Chosen- is two thirds or more of your army list already written down for you. While its good, its also pretty predictable.
If they had Steady that would be terrifying but otherwise I'm not sure its worse than like, double Ferox Makeda2 or double colossal Stryker1 or Madrak1 double champions. They aren't unkillable, they get hurt pretty bad by Grievous Wounds which you probably want to fit into at least one of your list pairings anyway if you can, and the factions that don't bring much GW (Protectorate, mainly?) should be able to figure out an answer. Its a good trick but "hits hard and brings grievous wounds" isn't an unheard-of request and is probably something you wanted to bring anyway to deal with several other lists as well as several other things in Primal Terrors.
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Post by Cryptix on Jan 25, 2018 2:36:12 GMT
So...Can Iron Fang Cavalry get an update now? Can they finally drop the lance rule? Chosen use axes. Clearly the only option is to put the Great Bears on Horseback.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Jan 25, 2018 3:54:40 GMT
There’s no CID power creep. CIDs to Cygnar and Cryx brought as many OP models down as they helped.
What you are seeing with Legion is 1) A correction in gross over costing of warbeasts, just like we did in Trolls and Minions. 2) A much better internal balance to offer more breadth in a 2 list pair. I think there will be some great PT lists, but will they be better than Abby2 or Fyanna2? I don’t think so, but atleast they will be equal and there will be more overall diversity in the meta.
I don’t think after this release you’re going to start seeing Legion crush the tournament scene.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Jan 25, 2018 3:57:45 GMT
It doesn’t help that when we someone posts a battle report with balance concerns players get on there and talk about how” the report wasn’t good” or “you didn’t show that” or “your skewing evidence” I’m very frustrated with this weeks changes. For you, I’d accept just getting the rules right.
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Post by trollsareblue on Jan 25, 2018 4:39:22 GMT
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that the nightmare scenario- +2 ARM caster, Blightbringer, Chosen- is two thirds or more of your army list already written down for you. While its good, its also pretty predictable. If they had Steady that would be terrifying but otherwise I'm not sure its worse than like, double Ferox Makeda2 or double colossal Stryker1 or Madrak1 double champions. They aren't unkillable, they get hurt pretty bad by Grievous Wounds which you probably want to fit into at least one of your list pairings anyway if you can, and the factions that don't bring much GW (Protectorate, mainly?) should be able to figure out an answer. Its a good trick but "hits hard and brings grievous wounds" isn't an unheard-of request and is probably something you wanted to bring anyway to deal with several other lists as well as several other things in Primal Terrors. I don't think requiring every list have access to GW is great balancing. The basic concept of Chosen needs reworked.
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