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ATC Lists
Jan 20, 2018 23:40:50 GMT
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Post by kuririnad on Jan 20, 2018 23:40:50 GMT
From your comments, it seems that you didn't go, so I think it is really not your place to call out people for not "playing seriously". Also, you have absolutely no idea how much practice or thought went into any list, so claiming that people who don't build a Bradigus list like you personally would expect don't know what they're doing is ignorant at best.
I'm just saying it can be angering and frustrating to have someone you never met call you out in a public fashion as either inexperienced, bad, or not a serious player.
Finally, I am far from 18, so once again you have written something offensive about which you have no knowledge.
...
I'll be returning to the original topic of this thread now, and suggest we all do the same.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jan 21, 2018 10:45:16 GMT
Edit: Also demonic sometimes I think you play a different game from us bud. Your posts often come across a little.... crazy. It is my understanding that he plays very little or not at all : lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/1100/requesting-list-tester but just likes theorizing a lot. Hence those long posts which seem to contain a lot of strong opinions but also feel divorced from the realities of the game at the same time.
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Post by maplewhisky on Jan 21, 2018 13:40:58 GMT
Edit: Also demonic sometimes I think you play a different game from us bud. Your posts often come across a little.... crazy. It is my understanding that he plays very little or not at all : lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/1100/requesting-list-tester but just likes theorizing a lot. Hence those long posts which seem to contain a lot of strong opinions but also feel divorced from the realities of the game at the same time. Good to know.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jan 21, 2018 18:07:27 GMT
Wow Cyel, great job with the personal attacks. I'll suck it up as just trolling in hopes that you guys will actually return to the original topic of things dealing with the ATC lists x.x
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Post by Swampmist on Jan 21, 2018 21:06:41 GMT
mods are watching
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Post by jisidro on Jan 22, 2018 14:13:53 GMT
from our players that went, they said that 80% of the competition didn't have serious lists. When I looked at the lists for ATC I was also pretty appalled. the majority of the brad lists didn't take advantage of his capabilities at ALL so the players who had those lists probably didn't know how to take advantage of brad's abilities either.
I looked at a few lists that surprised me but nothing that I would caracterize as harshly. Can you post up one and explain why it is appalling?
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jan 22, 2018 23:47:01 GMT
Since this is the circle area I'll use circle lists for the examples (tbh the circle players weren't nearly as bad as some)
Rich Stephenson: though his Krueger2 is a nice infantry drop, his Baldur2 list is a horrible pairing. Without at least a wold guardian, they both overlap as infantry killers, negating the list completely.
Justice Moy: I can see where he was going with both of his lists, but they just don't mesh. Tbh, he should have flipped them, using Kromac2 with the Ravagers. Mohsar1 is pretty good at helping out the RFP and having buffs/debuffs to help out your game, but unless he's your armor cracking caster you shouldn't be touching him. The fact that he included 2 gallows groves and an ogrun bokur before even thinking about Tharn Ravager White Mane or a Tharn Ravager Shaman shows a real lack of the basics for Circle. Tharn Ravagers receive their largest benefit from combining high mat with overtake and heart eater, allowing them to mulch non-medium based infantry and even solos with ease.
Ben Lubet: Here is an example of someone doing things right in the wrong way. His brad list has 3 wold wights which are great at killing non-fire immune infantry but lack any form of high hitting power. He then put 4 woldwatchers on the board which, although they are nice pieces, he could have benefitted much more by putting in another Wold Guardian and sacrificing 2 of the watchers; he was probably trying to take advantage of the Synergy spell but it ended up backfiring. In bones, going first, you can actually get 2 wold guardians to sit 30 inches from the table edge (total overkill) by simply running them 8 inches into advance deployed shifting stones that port them an additional 8 where brad can feat them an additional 5. Considering that this lets you contest every zone that can be placed on the board, there is no reason to spam wold watchers with a caster that doesn't benefit from terrain features. The fact that he paired Brad with Una2 is a good idea, however, especially if he spent a bit of time turning his brad list into an armor cracker. I do prefer Una2 in CotW but I've never seen her played with Devourer's Host. I think the idea of combining Hand of Fate with the Ravager chain is a great idea when you consider that the scarsfells are going to be cleaning up anything that gets in your way. 2 units of bloodweavers is laying it on a little thick though, chewing up points you could be using for something else. He could have put in the night witch and even the Tharn Shaman if he was looking for an anti-spam list to compliment his anti-armor list.
Jeff Shau: he probably takes the cake as far as what a fun list looks like; a bunch of random stuff thrown together in order to see what works. As long as he has fun then why care? His kaya3 list has the beginning of a foundation but I see no benefits to his Mohsar1 list other than testing for inevitable secret masters changes
Cyl... yeah I'll just stop now. I'm picking things apart due to my competitive nature. Basically, if you want to see what competitive circle lists look like, check out Chad Kaufman's pairing. There is little to nothing that I'd change in either of his lists and I wouldn't have even thought of the Una2 Tharn Wolf Rider idea.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 0:15:13 GMT
Hey demonic you knows these guys actually practice these lists right... So they didn’t just pop these into war room and say “hey that list ok! Let me take this to a once a year high stakes team tourney against some of the best players this side of the pond!” It’s easy to sit from the outside and say “wow that’s bad.” But I can tell you our faction has a lot more depth than people give it credit and I have never been fond of everyone playing the same lists. As far as mohsar being a dedicated arm crack or bust? I don’t agree. He absolutely shreds infantry. Crevasse I’m him is wonderful and if you are not using Gallows groves with Mohsar you are really struggling to do work with him because casting sands of fate 2 times to get into range is taxing for him. Even at 9 fury with maltreatment.
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Post by chocobsessed on Jan 23, 2018 20:03:07 GMT
Since you specifically called out Justice, I'd just like to point out that I played him in the circle mirror at the previous version of this event early in mk3, and I made a similar quick judgment of his lists since they were so different than mine - and he almost handed me my ass with these weird models called "woldwyrds" I had never played against before.
Remember, not everyone builds lists the same way, as you, and a list "looking bad" or "suboptimal" is sometimes just the first step on the path to the new OP. It's called "experimenting" and "testing" for a reason, it's not always a path of strict improvement, sometimes it doesn't work out - but when it does work out, it can redefine the meta.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jan 23, 2018 23:23:19 GMT
you should read a little closer at what I said about, specifically, Justice. His lists definitely had shape, they just didn't work well together. In a tournament setting, it's not only about the justification of a single list, but the pairing that has something to take on what is across the table from you. Lists were pretty good, singularly, just not together. It could be that they had 2 dedicated players for taking on what his lists don't answer, but that's still a real risky bet. Any team captain that saw his lists would have put him up against trollbloods or a double cavalry list. Even a Khador brick would have worked perfectly fine at shutting him down. On the other hand, his Kromac2 list was well prepped for clearing out Cryx spams and his Mohsar1 would have been hell on any light infantry.
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ATC Lists
Jan 24, 2018 3:18:21 GMT
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Post by elshinare on Jan 24, 2018 3:18:21 GMT
Also need to remember, just because you would play a list one way, does not mean the person piloting the list will run it that way, also do we have the win losses of each person with what they dropped against opposing lists?
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jan 24, 2018 8:14:37 GMT
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