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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 11, 2017 3:29:43 GMT
Let's dig Old Witch 1 back up! There have been discussions about her in the past, but it's been awhile since then. I've also had time to get more games in and solidify my primary witch list.
War Room Army
Khador - Shack In The Woods
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18 - Scrapjack - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Yuri the Axe - PC: 0
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 4
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
GENERATED : 12/10/2017 22:04:49 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
Yup. I am running 5 warjacks with OW1! I've read that she is not very efficient with jacks, and she might not be. But i find that with apparition and 7 focus, she tends to be able to put some damage down with her battle group
My juggernauts and behemoth are my sources of armor cracking while the rest of the army is great at taking out infantry. The ranged threat is also pretty strong, behemoth and devastator can put the hurt on some heavies.
I will say the list feels incomplete and i don't get the feeling of synergy between Ow1 and her battle group. She does great with the eliminators, assassins, and behemoth.
I have a tournament coming up this weekend and I wanted to get the community's thoughts on Ow1 in and some thoughts on my list.
If it helps my pairing with with a armor korps B3 list.
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Post by lovehugs on Dec 11, 2017 7:50:07 GMT
If you can find a way to free up 4 points for Sylys and fit another Forge Seer in the mix I'd say you'll be ready for some OW1 tricks.
With Great Power and Sylys you can upkeep Avatar and Iron flesh for free.
Two Forge Seers will let you feed another 2 focus a round, so that's 4 total focus you aren't spending a turn which is good.
You need to bank on a lot of focus to pull stuff like advancing OW1 up, casting Gallows and pulling something out of position for your juggs to eat up, then unseen path to your scrapjack to safety.
Or have OW1 with avatar charge some infantry to get some souls for focus for next turn, unseen to scrapjack, next turn you'll be loaded up with enough focus to 3 load all your Jacks and drop a murder of crows.
Either way, you want to ease the focus cost as much as you can, otherwise your just as good running OW2 and being twice as efficient as furling Jacks.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 11, 2017 12:58:01 GMT
I hadn't thought about how valuable sylys could be for the old witch! Increased gallows range and arcane secrets. That could possibly save another focus that I would spend on boosting to hit with gallows.
I went ahead and jammed sylys and a second forge seer in. I think this might hurt my scenario presence a little, but overall solid changes.
War Room Army
Khador - Shack In The Woods
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Scrapjack - Behemoth - PC: 25 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Juggernaut - PC: 12
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 0
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
GENERATED : 12/11/2017 07:54:29 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 11, 2017 13:03:17 GMT
I hadn't thought about how valuable sylys could be for the old witch! Increased gallows range and arcane secrets. That could possibly save another focus that I would spend on boosting to hit with gallows. Worth pointing out that he does not increase the range of Gallows when cast through Scrapjack, who is going to be your main range extender in most cases
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Post by smoothcriminal on Dec 11, 2017 14:49:27 GMT
I think OW is underpowered and is inferior to Sorscha 1 but if you absolutely want to play her, I'd go with: Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter
(Old Witch 1) The Old Witch of Khador [+18] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Kodiak [13] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Saxon Orrik [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13] - Greylord Escort [3]
The main points are: - you want to cast Gallows for threat ranges and yoyo Scrappy back which leaves you with no focus. Theme with both Seers and units that work by themselves is a must. - Wolves gives you a very good turn 1 with all upkeeps on. - you want Wolves to be your Cryx drop. OW is decent against Cryx. - Kodiak + OW cloud gives you a decent cloudwall. - no Fenris because I want Koldun lords to help doomies hit. Orrik provides pathfinder.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 12, 2017 6:38:56 GMT
Personally I think WGK is good for her
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 12, 2017 16:39:43 GMT
Personally I think WGK is good for her How do you play her in WGK? Ranged jacks, support caster? Or do you find yourself using the winterguard as meat shields to set up assassination runs?
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Post by Netherby on Dec 14, 2017 6:42:58 GMT
Well, in WGK it's tooled to deal with mostly with Cryx, Trenchers, etc type lists.
So WGI will be looking to spray stuff or CRA into more heavily armoured targets. Jacks are minimal because we will be spending most of our focus on positioning murder of crows to protect the army and teleporting scrap jack around. I actually include a Spriggan to mitigate stealth and use as a scenario piece.
Basically she plays a support role because getting souls in these match-ups is either not possible (no living) or unrealistic (trenchers are too far away). Also you want Avatar on Scrappy at the start to mulch the scary infantry, most players won't give you the assassination run any way.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 17, 2017 5:23:09 GMT
Great success! Just got back from the tournament. I went 3/4, and I would say that my loss was a very very close.
I had made a pretty silly mistake playing against Kolgrima 1. It was my first game against her and I should have read what she does a bit more. Turn 2 I feated, grabbed his entire army! Turn 3 my Behemoth and juggernaut tag teamed his colossal, OW wiped out a unit of raiders, and the destroyer finished off a unit of fire eaters that attempted to block charge lanes.
I had teleported OW1 in such a position to go for an assassination on turn 4, with all of her newly acquired souls. Looking back, I was a bit greedy and should have placed OW in a safe spot. Kolgrima teleported for free, walked around a building and sprayed OW down like s dirty dog. I did not see the SP10, 3D6 drop the lowest, POW 14 spray and I wish I had.
Had some fun games, as always OW did not disappoint, only my ignorance!
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 17, 2017 13:13:44 GMT
Nicely done! Who were you playing against in your three wins? Did you use OW in all the games?
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 17, 2017 14:50:31 GMT
The two lists I brought.
OW1 (Jaws of the Wolf) -Sylys Wyshlanyr -Scrapjack -Juggernaut -Juggernaut -juggernaut -Behemoth Greylord Forge seer -Destroyer Greylord Forge seer Kayazy Eliminators Kayazy Assassins min -Kayazy underboss
Butcher 3 (Armor Korps) -Devastator -Devastator -Ruin Man-o-war Drakhun Man-o-war Drakhun Man-o-war Kovnik Ragman Kayazy Eliminators Man-o-war Shocktroopers maximum -Man-o-war officer Khador Mechaniks maximum
A quick thought on my butcher 3 list. I found the max mechanics to be too much, all 6 of them were never needed or had the ability to get work done. Ragman felt wasted as well, his extra damage was nice, but never needed. To add some utility I've swapped these two out for Eiryss 2 and a min unit of mechanics.
First game was against, as best I can recall. Kolgrima 1 -Ice king -rune bearer Kriel stone bearer -Northkin elder Northkin Raiders max Champions max -Skaldi Champions min Fire eaters Fire eaters
Turn 1, Recon 2, I lost the roll. We both just advanced up. I pitted my behemoth, juggernaut, and destroyer vs. his ice king/fire eaters/min champions on the right half of the field. 2 juggernauts, assassins, eliminators on the left half against the rest of his army. Witch was deployed centrally and threw a cloud using the middle obstruction to block LOS. Turn 2 He advanced his models up, contesting the left side objective pretty far over half way up the board. Ice king was toeing in the right side zone. His warlock and support models were centrally deployed. I moved old witch up pretty aggressively and feated. I caught his entire army with the feat. moved the rest of my army up to get ready for the charge next turn. I upkept the cloud on the right half, keeping Iceking out of LOS of behemoth and juggernaut. Ice king did manage to push a forge seer off the objective on the right side. Turn 3 Trolls did not do too much, exactly what I wanted. The feat here is extra deadly for trolls (they don't get a tough roll). The ice king killed a forge seer. He ran a unit of fire eaters and min champions in front of behemoth and juggernaut. 1 champion and 1 fire eater survived, the other unit of fire eaters didn't move. I allocated full focus to behemoth and juggernaut, Witch sitting on 3, I did not upkeep the cloud (a big mistake), avatar of slaughter and ironflesh upkept for free. Juggernaut apparated to get a nice charge lane, went in hit ice king 3 times with his axe and punched the fire eater. Behemoth charged in and finished off the ice king with 1 focus to spare. Witch charged in on the raiders, cleared the entire unit plus a trollkin champion, teleported back to scrapjack who was sitting in the middle of my side. A juggernaut charged in killing a champion that was contesting. Turn 4 Kolgrima teleported up for free with the rune bearer, got plus 2 to cold spells with the elder. She then walked max and sprayed the with 3 times. I had no focus left as I had missed an attack and paid for teleport. Thinking back I should have read kolgrima a bit more, and I should have taken my kills and played safe, as he was very far down in attrition and scenario. Learning experience and good game.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 17, 2017 15:31:28 GMT
Second Game,
Cygnar, I went with Butcher 3. Both his lists were very shooty, and I figured that the armor could weather the storm a lot better. Witch also would not have the opportunity to get souls, everything would be held back. Also both lists were Siege, and he is pretty tanky.
Siege 1, -Triumph -Hammersmith Blockhouse Blockhouse Anson Fitch Maxwell Finn Patrol Dog Trencher Master Gunner Trencher Master Gunner Express team Express team Cannon Crew Trencher unit (min) Trencher unit (min) -UA
Turn 1, I won the roll (went first), Stand Off I Set my man-o-war shocktroopers up to contest the right side. kayazy and drakhuns were set up to take the left zone. Butcher and crew were set up to run right up the middle. Cygnar Set up block houses and trenches across the board (Pretty awesome to see). Express teams, triumph, solos, min unit of trenchers were set up on the left side. Siege, hammersmith, cannon crew, character solos and trencher min unit were set up centrally. Everyone advanced forward. I believe his blockhouses made some shots, as well as his cannon crew. Did some damage to devastators/ruin
Turn 2, Butcher 3 and crew got repaired by mechanics, advanced up aggressively. Ruin was sitting in a trench on my side to try and not get shot. Eliminators and drakhuns set up on the left so that if he sent anything in to shoot the eliminators they would get counter charged. MOWST moved up into the zone. My opponent did a bunch of work with the express teams, knocking back drakhuns and ruin (got him out of the trench). he then ran 3 trenchers up in front of them for a cloud wall. This time he got a full round of shooting into my devs/ruin, he did feat as well. Did quit a bit of damage, bringing both devastators to around 20 hp. He managed to kill 2 shock troopers under feat. We both scored on our warjack zones, neither infantry zone scored.
Turn 3, Mechanics made good use of repairing ruin to full, repaired one of the devastators to ~25. My eliminators charged the smoke screen trecnhers, side stepped into the express teams and killed the non-ogrun crew member. Drakhun charged the third smoke screen trencher and re positioned into combat with triumph. Ruin charged into a random trencher model, getting a soul on ruin is the best thing ever (he can now ignore spells for butcher and can act much more autonomously). The second drakhun ran into combat with the express teams. I sent in my hurt devastator to reign of death and block a charge lane from the hammersmith to ruin (Ruin was out of range, but it's good to be safe). Reign of death finished off the trencher unit, and kill 2 cannon crew. My other Devastator hung back and blocked for butcher 3, setting up for some carnage the next turn. The man-o-war shock troopers advanced into some trenchers and killed 2. Together the hammersmith and block houses wasted the devastator. The hammersmith knocked the devastator into my drakhun knocking him off his mount. I don't remember what triumph did, but it was not much, I believe he tried to kill the drakhun. He freed his express teams with the master gunners and sprays. Proceeded to knock around ruin and a drakhun. Siege also shot a slam spell at ruin (which I 100% forgot he can't, but it happened). By this point my opponent was sitting at 10 minutes, I was at 30, he said this was his first time with the list/blockhouses. The game was not looking good for the cygnar player.
Turn 4 I allocated 2 focus to ruin, paid to stand him up. I charged triumph with a drakhun, chunked him for a big amount, by this point I ignored the express team. Second drakhun did some damage to triumph. Activated Ruin, used the soul to get full focus, charged triump and left him on 1 box, did the rest of my attacks on the hammersmith. My devastator slammed the hammersmith into triumph to finish him off. Man-o-wars weren't making progress with the blockhouse replenishing the trencher unit as fast as I could kill them. By this point My opponent had conceded. It was interesting game, he might have been able to push it in his favor given time.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 17, 2017 16:04:08 GMT
Third Game,
I fought cephalyx. Again I chose Butcher 3. He had the telekinesis warcaster, which I did not want to have fighting witch. The telekinesis can counter my apparation pretty well, and witch is paper, if he combos with the feat she is toast! Telekinesis can swing 6" of movement. Butcher on the other hand is not going to care as much. He did not end up going with the Thexus, but Cognifex Cyphon.
His list as best I can recall, Cognifex Cyphon -subduer -wrekcer -wrecker -warden -warden cephalyx agitator cephalyx agitator Mind benders max Mind salvers max (ambush) Cephalyx overlords Dominators -Kayazy eliminators Dominators -kayazy eliminators
Turn 1, I won the roll (I went first), The Pitt 2 I set up centrally, I wanted to avoid the ambush. I find that I set butcher 3 up almost the same every game. Drakhuns/eliminators on my left flank and shock troopers on the right flank. I kept tight was I moved up. He set up very strong on the left, i assumed this is where he will ambush. He only sent agitators towards the shocktroopers.
Turn 2, I set my drakhuns up to charge the ambushing unit, out of range of their charge range. I make a big 'L' wall with my jacks and drakhuns for butcher to hide behind. I charge in with the argus, killing a mind bender each and sprinting back to safety. As I suspected he ambushes, running them up towards the drakhuns, I did manage to get a counter charge. I only knocked the model down, and set the drakhun up to get charged himself (silly move of me). the overlords start some infighting with the shocktroopers, doing a point of damage or two. His eliminators charge over towards the man-o-wars, they managed to kill a shocktrooper. His battle group stayed back, ran up with the mind benders to jam me.
Turn 3, I saw the perfect opportunity for some 'butchering'. Used my drakhuns to kill a few slavers/benders and reposition out the way. Butcher charged towards the slavers, cast swiping blade and kill about 6 models. By this point Ruin was full of souls, won't have to worry about him for the rest of the game. Mechanics were sitting in the back trying not to clog me up. The eliminators did work on clearing as many of the jammers as possible. Devastators moved in position to block charge lanes to the butcher. Being steady and sturdy was great for stopping gallows/subduer pulls. The shock troopers managed to kill a kayazy and the unit officer. My opponent decided to abandon the left flank, left a warden behind to block some charge lanes. The second unit of kayazy did more work and killed another shock trooper, agitators continue to make them hit each other. I do not think anyone has scored points yet, possibly 1 each.
Turn 4,
I clear the left zone with kayazy and impact charges from the drakhuns. I then run my mechanics in to score. The drakhuns had put some hurting on the warden left to block charges. Ruin went in and finished the job. Devastators moved around the middle obstruction into his half of the board, butcher 3 followed up behind. By this point I had swept the left half of the board and began to work my way right towards the MOWST. Butcher 3's argus managed to kill a kayazy eliminator, they were positioned on the other side of the objective towards the MOWST. He sent in his wreckers to clear out my MOWST. Killing all but 2 and leaving them on few HP. His entire battle group was in the right side zone, leaving a couple models contesting and toeing in the middle zone. By now the was was 3 to 1.
Turn 5, I moved my devastators straight at him, following up with the butcher. Ruin had moved towards the bottom, forming my right flank as I advanced. The Drakhuns set up my left flank getting ready for counter charges. The eliminators charged in to clear the middle zone. My kovnik charge in to assist the MOWST, against the last kayazy and wrecker. End of my turn scoring went to 4 to 1. During his turn he feated, charged my devastators with his wrecker/subduer. Finished off my MOWST and kovnik, clearing his zone. He did manage to hurt the devastators, but I also got a counter charge from a drakhun. End of his turn scoring went to 5 to 2.
Turn 6, I realized I only had to clear the middle zone of his monstrosities and contest the far zone. So I charged in my drakhuns on the wrecker/subduer, repositioned into the right zone. My devastators made room for butcher, he charged in and cleared the two monstrosities. Ended my turn, and scoring went to 7 to 2
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 17, 2017 17:18:58 GMT
Fourth game, was against mercenaries
He had a phinneus shae list and a Macbaine list. Both of the were fairly high model count, and neither were too tough in combat. So I went with witch 3. He chose the Macbain list
Drake Macbain 1 -Galleon -Nomad Trencher unit max -UA -Harrison Gibbs Trencher commandos max
I think he had some more solos, but I can't recall, the game was not very long.
Turn 1, I won the roll (go first), Spread the Net, Witch sets up in the middle. Behemoth, destroyer, forge seers, assassins set up on the right flank. Eliminators and 2 juggernauts on the left. He sets up a huge wall of trenchers and commandos on the left with Nomad behind. His Galleon deploys on the right. We both advance up, I throw a cloud down to try and block LOS from galleon. He moves up all his trenchers make a huge cloud wall and repos behind it.
Turn 2, I run up aggressively with OW and feat, grabbing again nearly everyone. I throw a cloud down for OW, scrappy and sylys. Sylys is also on a hill, so def 18 is going to be annoying. I throw some shots into the galleon with behemoth and destroyer, do a pithy amount of damage. I run 4 assassins in on the right side to jam up some trenchers, I used 2 to block drag lanes from galleon, and the UA hides. Drake activates and feats, rolls a 6. Now 11 of his front warrior models can't die. He proceeds to unjam his trenchers and make a couple shots at sylys with grenades. He sends in some commandos to jam the juggernauts on the left, they get knocked down. Galleon pumps some damage into the juggernaut.
Turn 3, He has a ton of infantry clogging up the middle, 11 of them are immune to death, but there is a big back line that is not. OW finds a gap, charges through 2 and takes some free strikes. They both miss. OW proceeds to mulch 9 warrior models and teleport back to scrap jack. I then activate the juggernauts jam the jammers from reaching OW. I also run the underboss and the rest of the assassins in to block more of the trenchers. At this point I believe there are 3 commandos on the far let, 3 in combat with juggernauts, and then 6 or so trenchers tied up with the assassins. My eliminators wiped out the last turn by an errant grenade. I pump galleon with some more shots, not really effective. His turn he starts by blowing up my juggernaut and then dragging him in to his doom. drake and trenchers move in on my assassins and clear them. Commandos stand up and take some shots at the warjacks. His nomad scores on his zone. he did manage to scatter a high explosive grenade on OW and do some 8 points of damage.
Turn 4, OW does what OW does best and leap frogs an absurd amount across the board to land behind Drake. At this point he has no focus from upkeeps and feeding the galleon. The game felt fast, two turn 2 was a strong feat turn for both of us, and turn three was a quick and dirty stand off.
Had some great games, still sad about my first loss, but it was a good lesson in greed!
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Post by blindfury on Dec 17, 2017 23:14:01 GMT
Nice work. This was very helpful. I've been trying to decide what version of OW to grab first and it is good to see she has game in first incarnation.
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