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Post by Trollock on Nov 17, 2017 15:20:19 GMT
Cryx CID is almost over, and we can probably assume there will be only minor (if any) changes to the official rules after this last update. I am a Troll player, and in our recent CID we got a lot of love, and I think that CID was amazing. How do you Cryx dudes perceive the things that happened in your CID? As a troll player, i know it is not fun when your things get nerfed (you probably remember the Madrak 2 nerf, but you probably do NOT remember that both Madrak 1 [who was arguably the worst caster in the game] and Doomshaper 1 were both nerfed very early on in MK3) but as an outsider, i think it is very good for a faction that the one caster that is "obviously best" gets brought back in to line with the rest of the faction, at least in the long run. At least you guys got tonnes and tonnes of new cool stuff to help you swallow the nerf so to speak, right?
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Post by tiberius on Nov 17, 2017 15:38:52 GMT
I have not been involved in the CID so I only know what I have been told here, but it hopefully the goal was to make each of our 6 themes a viable choice in a tournament. Though I still see Dark Host as being a little bit above the curve, I think the new releases and the changes to specific casters have brought a lot of things in line. The Nerfs to Deneghra 1 where justified. The changes to Deneghra 2, we will see, as incorporeal is hard to deal with for a lot of folks. Most other things seemed to move sideways, where it didn't seem to be a big change in power level, just changing where the pressure is applied.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 17, 2017 15:51:06 GMT
I think overall its a way better end result than dark host. I still have concerns about skarre 3 and I think ghost fleet has been relegated to an assassination list. I have a huge battle report thread on there discussing is raiders need to have whipping winds changed slightly but complete dev silence on that one so I have a feeling it was all for nothing haha.
At least when these rules and models drop well see more cryx lists than the typical dark host ghost fleet pairing.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Nov 17, 2017 21:33:57 GMT
I'm honestly concerned we're just going to see GF/DH swapped out for DH/Scourge, with a similar level of gearchecking. I'm still hoping they'll tone down raiders, and I'm holding out hope for a post-CID unilateral nerf of coven (at the very least, remove the stupid immunity to assassination rules...)
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Deller
Junior Strategist
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Post by Deller on Nov 18, 2017 2:44:45 GMT
I’m not a fan of how Revenants were shoehorned in during week 2. They completely took over the cycle & I don’t think a lot of the Slaughter Fleet models really got looked at as well as they could have been. Honestly they should have extended the cycle another whole week, without including Ghost Fleet in week 3, so all the models this cycle was suppose to be about could actually get a full 2 weeks of testing. Ghost Fleet should have been a completely separate cycle, it’s inclusion here was incredibly distracting.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 18, 2017 14:08:24 GMT
i'm deeply concerned with the power level of some of the things. Time will tell if i'm right or not.
it feels like a massive kick in the nuts for Cryx to now have the single best ranged medium based infantry too, especially in a faction with black spot and generous debuffs
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Post by Cryptix on Nov 18, 2017 16:32:10 GMT
I'm just glad that while they were busy kicking Ghost Fleet in the nuts they didn't get to remove Wraith Engines from free points like some were saying.
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Post by grotsnik on Nov 19, 2017 8:36:44 GMT
i'm deeply concerned with the power level of some of the things. Time will tell if i'm right or not. it feels like a massive kick in the nuts for Cryx to now have the single best ranged medium based infantry too, especially in a faction with black spot and generous debuffs I dont expect smog belchers bending the meta, I even doubt they see a lot of play in competitive levels... obviously time will tell if I am wrong but dont be worried about that yet. I'm just glad that while they were busy kicking Ghost Fleet in the nuts they didn't get to remove Wraith Engines from free points like some were saying. Lol, amen to that.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Nov 22, 2017 7:47:39 GMT
The changes to Deneghra 2, we will see, as incorporeal is hard to deal with for a lot of folks. I actually think that's the interesting thing about the feat. Because there's always the choice to use it offensively or defensively, armies that can deal with Incorporeal will most likely just have to swallow an assassination attempt when you use the feat for pure offense to move through the lines and other opponents will most likely get some high value models shoved in their faces, which is not really any different from Skarre 2, Saeryn 1 or Stryker 1 for instance.
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Provengreil
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Post by Provengreil on Nov 25, 2017 0:54:24 GMT
I think adding ghost fleet was a bad idea in general, it swallowed the whole CID as every single person who's ever faced it jumped onboard to nerf it...which left other problematic things like Skarre 3, raiders, and smog belchers at questionably high power levels.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Nov 25, 2017 4:24:31 GMT
I'm just glad that while they were busy kicking Ghost Fleet in the nuts they didn't get to remove Wraith Engines from free points like some were saying. I'd love it if they added the Hellsinger Phantom to free options and the make the WE count towards free options in IM.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Nov 25, 2017 4:26:30 GMT
I think adding ghost fleet was a bad idea in general, it swallowed the whole CID as every single person who's ever faced it jumped onboard to nerf it...which left other problematic things like Skarre 3, raiders, and smog belchers at questionably high power levels. I've played with and against all 3 models and I really don't see it. At def 13 and with Admo, Skarre3 was a terror, she really isn't anymore. The belchers are cute but hardly meta bending. Raiders are strong against some things and die horribly to others.
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Post by trollsareblue on Nov 25, 2017 16:26:52 GMT
I think adding ghost fleet was a bad idea in general, it swallowed the whole CID as every single person who's ever faced it jumped onboard to nerf it...which left other problematic things like Skarre 3, raiders, and smog belchers at questionably high power levels. I've played with and against all 3 models and I really don't see it. At def 13 and with Admo, Skarre3 was a terror, she really isn't anymore. The belchers are cute but hardly meta bending. Raiders are strong against some things and die horribly to others. Cute? Really? I can think of at least four factions where the smog belchers would immediately enter play as a competitive unit.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
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Post by Deller on Nov 25, 2017 16:44:05 GMT
I've played with and against all 3 models and I really don't see it. At def 13 and with Admo, Skarre3 was a terror, she really isn't anymore. The belchers are cute but hardly meta bending. Raiders are strong against some things and die horribly to others. Cute? Really? I can think of at least four factions where the smog belchers would immediately enter play as a competitive unit. I can think of at least 4 factions where a Slayer would see competitive play. Just because something is competitive in one faction does not necessarily make it competitive in another. I would play Constance Blaize with 0 Marrowan models in Cryx if I could. Crusader’s Call + her feat would be really good in Slaughter Fleet & Repudiate, Sunburst, & Blessing of Morrow are all relevant in the current meta. I haven’t seen a Merc or Cygnar player put her on the table once despite the fact her kit has everything I could ever want in a Ghost Fleet drop. Just because something would be good in one faction does not automatically make it good in another.
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Post by grotsnik on Nov 25, 2017 17:04:20 GMT
Cute? Really? I can think of at least four factions where the smog belchers would immediately enter play as a competitive unit. But sadly not in ours... I dont know how to feel about them, I've been doing numbers: against a 13/17 jack the whole unit does 6.5 damage on average; 6.6 to 12/18; 5.6 to 11/19; and 4 to 10/20. If you add parasite the damages goes to 12.5 14.6 14.5 and 13 respectively. If you add a -2/-2 debuff damage goes to: 18 16.8 14.3 and 11. So... even with an expensive debuff a 15 point unit only destroys 2/3 of a jack at most. Against heavy cavalry (12/19) the whole unit does 4.5 damage... they cant even kill one guy. With a -2/-2 it goes to 13, so at least there you can kill 2 and leave another one with 2 or 3 boxes... or leave everyone with 2 or 3 boxes but unable to charge. So they might get their points back here. Maybe the best use for them is to go against heavy infantry, but that doesnt come up very often, exept in devours host... and even then youll probabably need a -2/-2 debuff. Against infantry they cant hit a thing (against def 12 the hit 58% of times, 42% against 13 and 28% against 14).. and even then they are in a theme that has no trouble against infantry so... provided the enemy scatters the troops then they will keep on not doing that much. The cloud wall is also unreliable being spd 6 with no ad, but at least there is that. Had they been aoe 4 pow 13 and no healing (as they were announced) I think they wouldve been much better. So, not saying they are unplayable but I find very hard seeing how they are a so over the top unit
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