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Post by crippler on Nov 16, 2017 17:20:54 GMT
Hey folks!
Who’s played against Madrak1? What did you think of the matchup? I’m going to run into some Madrak at a steamroller this weekend. What do we do against that high def skew?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Madrak 1
Nov 16, 2017 20:00:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by isotope on Nov 16, 2017 20:00:59 GMT
Bring some lube. Honestly, your Firetrucked. I did 28 damage to a unit with skaldi and 2 sorcs, i needed to do 7 more damage before tough checks would happen, next turn he feats and they are back to full life. That fact that sanguine bond carries over to attachments is kinda bullshit, especially since theyre already 14/18 to guns and 16/18 retalitory strike in melee and cant be knocked down.
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Post by crippler on Nov 16, 2017 20:16:09 GMT
Lol nice!!!
Ok. One thing for sure - don’t do damage unless you can do all the damage. Right?
So how do we do that? Maybe a little chip in damage that snot enough to actually cause him to feat?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Madrak 1
Nov 16, 2017 20:57:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by isotope on Nov 16, 2017 20:57:16 GMT
I had commited most of my list to killing his mountain king all i had was arcing hand of destrction and a disco spray. I hit 5 of the 6 in the spray ( thanks to hemera giving me +2) and did 28 damage. It wasn't bad yo triggwr him to feat off 1 attack but I coukdnt believe I could put that much damage into a unit and not fmget a single tough check out of it.
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Madrak 1
Nov 16, 2017 20:58:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by elladan52 on Nov 16, 2017 20:58:11 GMT
It's all chip damage when you can pass it around.
Powerful guns seem like a good way to go. Soften them up and slow them down with an AFG + Battlegroup shots, then hit them with something like minifeated halbs, maybe? Keep in mind the momentum guns still slam the models, and since they are likely to be b2b with multiple models ypu can do a large amount of damage to 1 and then chip a couple others.
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Madrak 1
Nov 17, 2017 16:08:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by norka19 on Nov 17, 2017 16:08:20 GMT
It's all chip damage when you can pass it around. Powerful guns seem like a good way to go. Soften them up and slow them down with an AFG + Battlegroup shots, then hit them with something like minifeated halbs, maybe? Keep in mind the momentum guns still slam the models, and since they are likely to be b2b with multiple models ypu can do a large amount of damage to 1 and then chip a couple others. Plan to play this match up next week, I see no reason why a double halbs double Afg elara or Thyron list won’t trounce it
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Madrak 1
Nov 17, 2017 16:13:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by elladan52 on Nov 17, 2017 16:13:24 GMT
It's all chip damage when you can pass it around. Powerful guns seem like a good way to go. Soften them up and slow them down with an AFG + Battlegroup shots, then hit them with something like minifeated halbs, maybe? Keep in mind the momentum guns still slam the models, and since they are likely to be b2b with multiple models ypu can do a large amount of damage to 1 and then chip a couple others. Plan to play this match up next week, I see no reason why a double halbs double Afg elara or Thyron list won’t trounce it Agreed, especially Elara2. You should be able to easily force him to feat purely for the defensive aspect, then just back up and charge him the next turn.
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Post by psycomonky on Nov 17, 2017 17:40:44 GMT
For the halberdiers i think it depends on how he approaches the matcheup. If he leads with two champions from each unit you have to decide to charge with a few halbs or all the halbs. If you charge with all the halbs he will just let those champions die and counter charge next turn to wipe out the halbs. If you charge with just a few halbs he can keep the champions die and clear out the couple halbs.
Personally I think the 2nd option is better for the ret player as the 1st leads to a total wipe quickly. I'm not sure halbs are a good answer as without the charge/minifeat they don't do anything to the champions. With elara2 they have trouble hitting, with thyron they have trouble damaging.
In a vacuum sentinels kill champions pretty hard but they cost a bit more and if it goes badly it will go badly very quickly.
I think the answer is high quality shooting over two turns. Aiming stormfall archers, possibly with some sort of hitting buff or invictors shooting in two man pods can get a couple rounds of shooting into he slow champions. An AFG or two can help but alone they dont put out enough damage. One round of good shooting will be ignored, two rounds will force the feat or start killing off models.
Thats my 2c as I have not played the match at all.
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Post by crippler on Nov 17, 2017 18:16:29 GMT
It feels to me like we haven’t had to deal with DEF skew in mark 3 and it’s going to shake up the meta because it’s a very different beast.
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Post by adakai on Nov 17, 2017 18:56:05 GMT
It's life fighting a def 16 heavy that will get to occasionally roll a tough check against huge damage spikes.
No big deal.... haha I play trolls too - so as a ret player, I am not quite sure how I would exactly go about it. Maybe best bet is to jam them hard when possible, they are super slow in that list and nothing speeds them up. plop some AOE AFG rough terrain lol bait out feat then send a heavy in there to hit hard. They will most likely be def 16 arm 18 with hit boxes equal to either a light warjack (without any attachments) or a heavy warjack (w/ attachments).
Either way, it seems not so fun to play against lol
Also - that list doesnt like grievous wounds. lol
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Post by crippler on Nov 17, 2017 19:16:05 GMT
Agreed on the grievous wounds. What is a good source for Retribution? We don’t usually play with anything grievous right?
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Post by adakai on Nov 17, 2017 19:55:22 GMT
Agreed on the grievous wounds. What is a good source for Retribution? We don’t usually play with anything grievous right? I almost always default to bringing banshees haha - you're going to probably boost the hits to reliably kill def 16 stuff. Depending on the pacing of the game, this could be one viable option.
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Madrak 1
Nov 17, 2017 20:24:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by elladan52 on Nov 17, 2017 20:24:34 GMT
Kinda? At best, you crit on 3 and keep them from healing, but not from spreading the damage around. The most likely outcome is you don't crit on a single one and just do damage. It's not the end of the world, but it's not exactly a hard counter, especially when you probably only get 2 hits in.
Banshees still slam them though, that's good.
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Post by adakai on Nov 17, 2017 21:21:17 GMT
Yeah so like the trick is getting enough volume of high powered attacks into that unit. With the skews I think you need to simultaneously soften them up with ranged then commit something like a heavy to hit them atleast 3 or 4 times with a relatively high pow. At a certain point they hit that threshold of 27-30 boxes and they wont be able to sanguine bond the damage anymore.
It certainly isn't easy though.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Nov 17, 2017 21:27:40 GMT
Once I get my Vyros1 list back from the paint shop I think it will be a good matchup. Being able to charge in the Nyss, feat then send in a free charging imperatus at MAT9 POW 19 weaponmaster I feel you could chew through an entire unit. At the same time you could also deal with the Mountain King with the banshee I have in the list and if you dont 1 round it hopefully youve gotten one crit off so the whelps cant heal it up.
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