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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 13, 2017 18:03:49 GMT
Off the top of my head: Slipstream, Naga, Deathstalkers, Raptors... Pathfinder on all beasts? The Carni chassis doesn't have pathfinder and there's not too many ways for it is get pathfinder. Carni chassis does have pathfinder...
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 13, 2017 18:04:39 GMT
Thats funny to hear that perspective. I feel like bloodtrackers outclass warspears. Mainly because of their higher speed, native prey, pathfinder, and native stealth. The thing is, none of that matters if your opponent has accurate sprays or any form of blast damage bigger than AOE 3 lol. I am not saying they are not good. I just think war spears hit harder and are more survivable overall Thats true, not worrying about blast damage is nice.
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Post by Forsaken on Nov 30, 2017 5:41:28 GMT
I play both factions and I often wish the Circle beasts could be as mobile and hard hitting as the flying Legion beasts. It also drives me a little nuts that Kaya should be capable of at least half of what Abby is but Kaya isn't (why did Kaya2 lose a weaker version of alpha hunter?). On the other hand Circle has some other really great casters and access to some spells Legion would love (Looking at you hunters mark). Legion has some pretty sweet infantry but pays through the nose and so much of Legion is so fragile it makes Circle look like tanks. Legion beasts also have quite a bit more ranged options but less shananigans like throwing and bulldoze. I quite like ogryns but I would compare them to male tharn or skinwalkers not female tharn. Bloodtrackers are much more like strides, which I think beat out the trackers. Also, both factions have good but very different support pieces.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 30, 2017 5:45:18 GMT
I play both factions and I often wish the Circle beasts could be as mobile and hard hitting as the flying Legion beasts. It also drives me a little nuts that Kaya should be capable of at least half of what Abby is but Kaya isn't (why did Kaya2 lose a weaker version of alpha hunter?). On the other hand Circle has some other really great casters and access to some spells Legion would love (Looking at you hunters mark). Legion has some pretty sweet infantry but pays through the nose and so much of Legion is so fragile it makes Circle look like tanks. Legion beasts also have quite a bit more ranged options but less shananigans like throwing and bulldoze. I quite like ogryns but I would compare them to male tharn or skinwalkers not female tharn. Bloodtrackers are much more like strides, which I think beat out the trackers. Also, both factions have good but very different support pieces. Yeah, I'm always amazed by how Survivable Warpwolves are compared to the Carni Chassis. 14 def goes a long way on a heavy that also has high armor. I'd say the Angelius and Neraphs prove this, but they have fewer health boxes.
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Post by Forsaken on Nov 30, 2017 5:51:47 GMT
I play both factions and I often wish the Circle beasts could be as mobile and hard hitting as the flying Legion beasts. It also drives me a little nuts that Kaya should be capable of at least half of what Abby is but Kaya isn't (why did Kaya2 lose a weaker version of alpha hunter?). On the other hand Circle has some other really great casters and access to some spells Legion would love (Looking at you hunters mark). Legion has some pretty sweet infantry but pays through the nose and so much of Legion is so fragile it makes Circle look like tanks. Legion beasts also have quite a bit more ranged options but less shananigans like throwing and bulldoze. I quite like ogryns but I would compare them to male tharn or skinwalkers not female tharn. Bloodtrackers are much more like strides, which I think beat out the trackers. Also, both factions have good but very different support pieces. Yeah, I'm always amazed by how Survivable Warpwolves are compared to the Carni Chassis. 14 def goes a long way on a heavy that also has high armor. I'd say the Angelius and Neraphs prove this, but they have fewer health boxes. True but they can't be knocked down to take away that high def.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 30, 2017 7:26:34 GMT
I play both factions, so putting on my Circle hat what do I miss from Legion when I'm playing Circle?
- Pathfinder on heavies - the Seraph. Gods the Seraph. Slipstream is still the best animus in the game, and flare on an eyeless sight gun with a 19" threat is incredible. - FURY management - Circle's FURY management is not very effective and very clunky to use. Legion is just the opposite - Raptors. Sweet mother of Toruk I miss raptors.
That being said, I absolutely feel a significant bump in power when going from Legion to Circle. Now if only Circle had a caster with as much fun factor as the twins...
-und_ed
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 30, 2017 15:24:11 GMT
I play both factions, so putting on my Circle hat what do I miss from Legion when I'm playing Circle? - Pathfinder on heavies - the Seraph. Gods the Seraph. Slipstream is still the best animus in the game, and flare on an eyeless sight gun with a 19" threat is incredible. - FURY management - Circle's FURY management is not very effective and very clunky to use. Legion is just the opposite - Raptors. Sweet mother of Toruk I miss raptors. That being said, I absolutely feel a significant bump in power when going from Legion to Circle. Now if only Circle had a caster with as much fun factor as the twins... -und_ed Mohsar seems funs. I always get so mad playing against him.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 30, 2017 15:24:38 GMT
Yeah, I'm always amazed by how Survivable Warpwolves are compared to the Carni Chassis. 14 def goes a long way on a heavy that also has high armor. I'd say the Angelius and Neraphs prove this, but they have fewer health boxes. True but they can't be knocked down to take away that high def. True. But you also have Baulder1 and that damned dog.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 30, 2017 15:36:40 GMT
True but they can't be knocked down to take away that high def. True. But you also have Baulder1 and that damned dog. Yeah but IME with all the high accuracy attacks out there def 14 does not go as far into warmachine as it does into hordes. Mat 7 makes me sad and my opponents always seem to roll hard 7's like they are going out of style when I play with the puppies. I have never been able to consistently rely on def 14 :/ Also, if an argus is getting in Doppler bark range of legion Flying beasts before you get a hard alpha strike your opponent has failed lol. Its funny, I read the legion threads about all the things they want changed or made better and while I think some of it is warranted, I wonder how much of it is just not adapting to mark 3. I used to see alot of the same stuff in the cryx forums before themes exploded and they became top of the meta...heck you'll still see some of it over there. Its a lot like over here there are still some people convinced our faction sucks or that there is only 1 or 2 good lists or themes to play. That has died out a lot lately thank goodness.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 30, 2017 15:42:35 GMT
I play both factions, so putting on my Circle hat what do I miss from Legion when I'm playing Circle? - Pathfinder on heavies - the Seraph. Gods the Seraph. Slipstream is still the best animus in the game, and flare on an eyeless sight gun with a 19" threat is incredible. - FURY management - Circle's FURY management is not very effective and very clunky to use. Legion is just the opposite - Raptors. Sweet mother of Toruk I miss raptors. That being said, I absolutely feel a significant bump in power when going from Legion to Circle. Now if only Circle had a caster with as much fun factor as the twins... -und_ed Mohsar seems funs. I always get so mad playing against him. Mohsar is the reason I started Circle. Everything else is just window dressing. -und_ed
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 30, 2017 15:47:21 GMT
Its a lot like over here there are still some people convinced our faction sucks or that there is only 1 or 2 good lists or themes to play. That has died out a lot lately thank goodness. It died out because circle got the two things that were really missing and asking for, +2 damage on all wolds via the shaper and a good living beast theme with fun theme bonuses. Those two changes alone make circle fun again. The rest of the requests from the community like, improved LotF , cheaper living heavies, improvements to the benefits from Wild hunt ect... all pale in comparison to the impact of those two big additions.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 30, 2017 16:48:40 GMT
Its a lot like over here there are still some people convinced our faction sucks or that there is only 1 or 2 good lists or themes to play. That has died out a lot lately thank goodness. It died out because circle got the two things that were really missing and asking for, +2 damage on all wolds via the shaper and a good living beast theme with fun theme bonuses. Those two changes alone make circle fun again. The rest of the requests from the community like, improved LotF , cheaper living heavies, improvements to the benefits from Wild hunt ect... all pale in comparison to the impact of those two big additions. That's a fair point and I agree that those changes have revitalized the faction. Though I am not convinced on call of the wild yet. Mostly from a scenario standpoint. I have plans to play it in baldur 1 with that whole create my list thread. So we shall see I do agree, the Wold changes in CiD revitalized the faction. It gave us some very interesting options and made Bones of orboros better than it already was.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 30, 2017 18:05:08 GMT
True. But you also have Baulder1 and that damned dog. Yeah but IME with all the high accuracy attacks out there def 14 does not go as far into warmachine as it does into hordes. Mat 7 makes me sad and my opponents always seem to roll hard 7's like they are going out of style when I play with the puppies. I have never been able to consistently rely on def 14 :/ Also, if an argus is getting in Doppler bark range of legion Flying beasts before you get a hard alpha strike your opponent has failed lol. Its funny, I read the legion threads about all the things they want changed or made better and while I think some of it is warranted, I wonder how much of it is just not adapting to mark 3. I used to see alot of the same stuff in the cryx forums before themes exploded and they became top of the meta...heck you'll still see some of it over there. Its a lot like over here there are still some people convinced our faction sucks or that there is only 1 or 2 good lists or themes to play. That has died out a lot lately thank goodness. I understand the feeling. I can never seem to roll hard sevens either. True, but its still a major pain. Especially if Mohsar uses it and Teleports away. Its probably partially due to change of MK3. But there's two other problems that I see. The biggest one is statlines. In MK2 Legion had poor statlines, but had a lot of buffs outside of warlocks that brought Legion's pieces up to par. We lost our support pieces/they changed but we kept our poorer statlines. The other problem I think we're facing is a major change in faction playstyle. A lot of us, myself included, want Legion to play a certain way (I.E. glass cannon), however it no longer plays like that. Legion still relies on the alpha strike to an extent, but its more about picking off key models than it is just an all out assault or bulldozing. A lot of Legion players refuse to play the new playstyle, because thats not how they want to play. I refuse to pick up a new faction because none are as artistically interesting as Legion is. As such the complaining will likely never die out.
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 30, 2017 20:17:33 GMT
Wait for the Ogryn CID. If it goes anything like the previous CIDs Legion will have so many new and compelling toys to try out that people will be too busy to complain about the other stuff that's been aggravating them to date. This of course means spending more money but that just keeps the game healthy from a corporate perspective.
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Post by bloodhawk on Nov 30, 2017 23:18:29 GMT
I play both factions as well myself and was just thinking recently how they both seem to be in a similar spot (Although I would definitely give the edge to Circle after the Wold CID). If you look across the game you really don't see any armies as expensive as Circle and Legion. I am a big fan of beasts, and therefore I specifically am talking about Legion and Circle heavy beasts (Wolds excluded). If you compare the points of living heavies for both factions you will note that they are significantly higher than the heavies for other factions.
In general (there are a few exceptions) living heavies in other factions don't come in at over 17 points unless they offer something extremely powerful, and many of them are in the 15 to 16 point range. In the case of Legion and Circle our living heavy chassis (Warpwolf and Carni chassis), come in at a stagger 17 to 19 points (with only the pureblood being 17 points). By comparison it seems obvious these models are at least a point if not 2 points over costed across the board. When I look at a skin and moans, cage rager, and now the Wold Guardian / Wold Warden I shed a small tear. I am really excited for both of these factions to get a CID to bring their heavies more in line with the rest of the game. Also, while we are at it let's fix Vayl1 and Morhvanna2 (please please please and thank you).
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