mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Nov 10, 2017 23:18:52 GMT
Dang. I checked battle college quickly and they didn’t mention it so I had hope. Lol
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Post by profdikweed on Nov 11, 2017 23:22:33 GMT
I played this one yesterday. Felt really good, though I originally wanted my maddy1 list to be anti-inf no-tough and RFp machine. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0G4NfmjojqfFj20li-iZezj5iTbKTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Madrak 1) Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain [+29] - Glacier King [35] - Pyre Troll [8] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handle & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] This was into zerkoa1 in the man 'o' war theme. Won the dice roll and decided to go second for some reason. I really enjoyed max stone in this list, with the amount of spreading you can do its helpful to hand out the +1 spd or +2 damage. I put bears and valka on one flank and champs on another and then the rest in the middle. I ended up wining after he failed to kill my gk with two charging units of man'owars, after he'd committed both his destroyers to the flanks to deal with champs/bears. I also spread a lot of damaged around my champs getting them all down to 1 health, then proceeded to forget to feat during my turn. This list does feel good, almsot good enough to replace my BoH list i've been tinkering with. Being able to up the speed or the damage on my models is good, and pow 13 charging raiders can do some damage. it was my first time using the fireeaters though, man they are friggen good! The threat projection was amazing. WIll have to try the bears in the middle with the Gk though, just to bully the opponent. Bears ain't nothing to Firetruck with.
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Post by Bomma on Nov 12, 2017 4:21:27 GMT
Would there be a case to run the cold stone without SoTN?
Champs with Skaldi, stone unit and which ever beasts are native northkin? Giving them the extra speed to get about ?
B.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 12, 2017 4:29:40 GMT
the other reason i like the battle bears unit over double champs is scenario. I've found double champs can get a bit clogged up sometimes. Bears AD and are smaller units that can spread out but are still tough as nails.
the trollkin champ hero i think is pretty meh though in general. Retal strike is good in theory but doesn't pay off unless your opponent is running short melee infantry into them, which is where its got its max effectiveness.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 12, 2017 12:21:21 GMT
With sanguine bond it (retaliatory strike) is money under many more circumstances than before.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 22, 2017 7:16:10 GMT
Sorry for not posting here for so long - I haven't been playing a ton in the last couple weeks and when I have been playing I've been mucking around with Kolgrima.
I played the single fire eater version of my SotN list again tonight against an interesting Gastonne list. I accidentally threw my GK away on feat turn because I didn't think he could one round it with 4 walking hammer dwarves, a trampling nomad and some shooting support but he managed to pull it off. Instead I ground out a 5-0 scenario.
I am now more than ever convinced that the SotN or BoH way is more correct than PoD. The Jackhammer assassination while hilarious just doesn't work in the current meta of infantry spam. You want bodies and volume of medium-high quality attacks. Champs, Bears, Fenns, et cetera seem like the way to go.
The bears are, in a word, (absolutely) busted. They murder pretty much everything they come into contact with, out-threat most heavies and are VERY resilient to most high quality shooting with Prowl. They're undercosted at 10 IMO and anyone who was defending them at 8 in the CID either didn't play them or was intentionally trying to get stupid broken things past the devs to make up for perceived shortcomings in trolls. I'm not sure if I need 2 sets of them over double fire eaters but that's more a meta question than a reflection of their quality.
I'm on the fence with Lanyssa. I've used Hunter's Mark once so far to mediocre effect (used it to get a Fire Eater up further so it could catch Reinholdt in his assault) but it seems that between the champs, the bears and the king that you NEED the paper threat at least to bully your opponent into playing scared.
Positioning is difficult for me, I assume this is a function of playing PoD bricks for so long. Tactician takes a while to get used to and I'm struggling to position Madrak in such a way that covers everything under Even Ground (maybe it's just been spread scenarios).
All in all I am VERY impressed with Madrak's power ATM.
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Post by grabsnikk on Nov 22, 2017 7:34:21 GMT
Sorry for not posting here for so long - I haven't been playing a ton in the last couple weeks and when I have been playing I've been mucking around with Kolgrima. I played the single fire eater version of my SotN list again tonight against an interesting Gastonne list. I accidentally threw my GK away on feat turn because I didn't think he could one round it with 4 walking hammer dwarves, a trampling nomad and some shooting support but he managed to pull it off. Instead I ground out a 5-0 scenario. I am now more than ever convinced that the SotN or BoH way is more correct than PoD. The Jackhammer assassination while hilarious just doesn't work in the current meta of infantry spam. You want bodies and volume of medium-high quality attacks. Champs, Bears, Fenns, et cetera seem like the way to go. The bears are, in a word, (absolutely) busted. They murder pretty much everything they come into contact with, out-threat most heavies and are VERY resilient to most high quality shooting with Prowl. They're undercosted at 10 IMO and anyone who was defending them at 8 in the CID either didn't play them or was intentionally trying to get stupid broken things past the devs to make up for perceived shortcomings in trolls. I'm not sure if I need 2 sets of them over double fire eaters but that's more a meta question than a reflection of their quality. I'm on the fence with Lanyssa. I've used Hunter's Mark once so far to mediocre effect (used it to get a Fire Eater up further so it could catch Reinholdt in his assault) but it seems that between the champs, the bears and the king that you NEED the paper threat at least to bully your opponent into playing scared. Positioning is difficult for me, I assume this is a function of playing PoD bricks for so long. Tactician takes a while to get used to and I'm struggling to position Madrak in such a way that covers everything under Even Ground (maybe it's just been spread scenarios). All in all I am VERY impressed with Madrak's power ATM. How have you been using the Bears? Do you find that you Ambush them every game or is there a case to be made for Advance Deploying them on the table instead?
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 22, 2017 7:41:14 GMT
Sorry for not posting here for so long - I haven't been playing a ton in the last couple weeks and when I have been playing I've been mucking around with Kolgrima. I played the single fire eater version of my SotN list again tonight against an interesting Gastonne list. I accidentally threw my GK away on feat turn because I didn't think he could one round it with 4 walking hammer dwarves, a trampling nomad and some shooting support but he managed to pull it off. Instead I ground out a 5-0 scenario. I am now more than ever convinced that the SotN or BoH way is more correct than PoD. The Jackhammer assassination while hilarious just doesn't work in the current meta of infantry spam. You want bodies and volume of medium-high quality attacks. Champs, Bears, Fenns, et cetera seem like the way to go. The bears are, in a word, (absolutely) busted. They murder pretty much everything they come into contact with, out-threat most heavies and are VERY resilient to most high quality shooting with Prowl. They're undercosted at 10 IMO and anyone who was defending them at 8 in the CID either didn't play them or was intentionally trying to get stupid broken things past the devs to make up for perceived shortcomings in trolls. I'm not sure if I need 2 sets of them over double fire eaters but that's more a meta question than a reflection of their quality. I'm on the fence with Lanyssa. I've used Hunter's Mark once so far to mediocre effect (used it to get a Fire Eater up further so it could catch Reinholdt in his assault) but it seems that between the champs, the bears and the king that you NEED the paper threat at least to bully your opponent into playing scared. Positioning is difficult for me, I assume this is a function of playing PoD bricks for so long. Tactician takes a while to get used to and I'm struggling to position Madrak in such a way that covers everything under Even Ground (maybe it's just been spread scenarios). All in all I am VERY impressed with Madrak's power ATM. How have you been using the Bears? Do you find that you Ambush them every game or is there a case to be made for Advance Deploying them on the table instead? Haven't ambushed them once. Advance Deploy is busterino with them and the GK. They just pal around being def 14 concealment stealth arm 19 unyielding bubble wrap for the Glacier King until your opponent gives you a target of opportunity.
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Post by grabsnikk on Nov 22, 2017 7:46:36 GMT
Sounds like they have been pretty effective for you on the table. The ability to gain stealth from the GK seems pretty cool. I have only tried them out by Ambushing and have been having mixed success.
I will definitely have to try deploying them with AD.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 22, 2017 10:44:09 GMT
Sounds like they have been pretty effective for you on the table. The ability to gain stealth from the GK seems pretty cool. I have only tried them out by Ambushing and have been having mixed success. I will definitely have to try deploying them with AD. That might be why I didn't think the Bears were too much for 10 points. I played them mostly with Borka 2, never with a GK, and I always ambushed with them for scenario pressure. Even then I thought they were good but I guess I really wasn't using them to their full potential. They do have a weakness, though, and it is often pretty bad. It's 10-man weapon masters. It's way too easy to wind up trading an awesome 10-point unit for three Dread Rots, and that royally sucks. Madrak 1 or 2 could turn the tables with their feats, though. I should try that.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 22, 2017 19:11:18 GMT
Sounds like they have been pretty effective for you on the table. The ability to gain stealth from the GK seems pretty cool. I have only tried them out by Ambushing and have been having mixed success. I will definitely have to try deploying them with AD. That might be why I didn't think the Bears were too much for 10 points. I played them mostly with Borka 2, never with a GK, and I always ambushed with them for scenario pressure. Even then I thought they were good but I guess I really wasn't using them to their full potential. They do have a weakness, though, and it is often pretty bad. It's 10-man weapon masters. It's way too easy to wind up trading an awesome 10-point unit for three Dread Rots, and that royally sucks. Madrak 1 or 2 could turn the tables with their feats, though. I should try that. I don't think you've done the math here. Dread Rots need 8s to hit when you have Even Ground up and do an average of 3 damage on the charge before damage buffs. Even under Heretic Fury or KoN Scything Touch that still requires 2 hits to force a tough check. You also hit first which means you can feat offensively, and most weaponmasters won't break armor on average dice for a walk-punch.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 22, 2017 19:33:48 GMT
That might be why I didn't think the Bears were too much for 10 points. I played them mostly with Borka 2, never with a GK, and I always ambushed with them for scenario pressure. Even then I thought they were good but I guess I really wasn't using them to their full potential. They do have a weakness, though, and it is often pretty bad. It's 10-man weapon masters. It's way too easy to wind up trading an awesome 10-point unit for three Dread Rots, and that royally sucks. Madrak 1 or 2 could turn the tables with their feats, though. I should try that. I don't think you've done the math here. Dread Rots need 8s to hit when you have Even Ground up and do an average of 3 damage on the charge before damage buffs. Even under Heretic Fury or KoN Scything Touch that still requires 2 hits to force a tough check. You also hit first which means you can feat offensively, and most weaponmasters won't break armor on average dice for a walk-punch. Again, I wasn't playing them with Madrak 1. I don't know why that didn't occur to me in the CID.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 22, 2017 21:15:59 GMT
Even with Borka2, it should still take ~2-3 dreadrots to kill a single bear rather than the entire unit barring spikes.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 23, 2017 6:01:08 GMT
Even with Borka2, it should still take ~2-3 dreadrots to kill a single bear rather than the entire unit barring spikes. I was exaggerating a bit, but I meant that the Bears could not get past the Rots to better targets and could only kill a few before the Rots trivially removed them.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 23, 2017 6:07:11 GMT
That's fair, though thats what the Fire Eaters are for.
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