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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 23, 2017 13:06:23 GMT
That's fair, though thats what the Fire Eaters are for. I was having fun with 2x Battle Bears right when 10-man WM really starting trending and I had to switch to Fire Eaters.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 23, 2017 20:06:31 GMT
Yeah Fire Eaters are the real deal. I'm trying to find a double bear double fire eaters shell I can get behind - there's a LOT of tinkering to do between now and LVO.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 25, 2017 7:42:52 GMT
Got another match in versus Heretic beast brick. I made a mistake in not appropriately spacing to stop him from getting rebuke off on the champs but he returned the favor by mis-positioning his gremlin swarms and the Heretic and letting me have a go at assassination. I burned through 4 transfers and left him on 2 due to bad dice. I had a shot at finishing him off with a Fire Eater assault but he uses Pandemonium. He kills the Glacier King and I turn around and kill him on my next turn.
The game did help illustrate the issues with a lack of magical weapons. I'd seriously consider swapping runebearer and lanyssa for 2x Shaman, which also creates concealment sources if you don't want to put your bears/fire eaters in the snow banks or next to the GK.
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Post by grimgor on Nov 25, 2017 18:43:22 GMT
What's your mind about playing this kind of list with borka 2 instead ? Dont you have issues with FE without pyre troll to flame them ? How do you do then ? I dont really like FE, i think they are expensive for what they do, they will always kill 2 or 3 dudes and then dying, and if they losed their fire, they are almost useless. I'm agree with you about the bears,i played against them, in ambush they are threatening 14", it's very scary, and in my game they almost killed my EDBT, that was very annoying.
For the lack of magical weapons, why dont just putting a sorcerer ?
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 25, 2017 20:08:58 GMT
Can I post a dumb list I came up with while half asleep? I'm going to do it anyway.
War Room Army
Trollblood - Bad Idea
Theme: Band of Heroes 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3
Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 0 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 - Trollkin Sorcerer - PC: 3 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
THEME: Band of Heroes ---
GENERATED : 11/25/2017 15:03:47 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
The list can actually put out a decent amount of ranged firepower, and with an extra 15 hit points per champ unit thanks to the 3 sorcerer WAs, they might be even more survivable. However there's not a whole lot of board presence or defensive tech outside of Even Ground and the stone. I also wonder if it might be better in SoTN so that you can speed up the champs some instead.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 26, 2017 6:44:56 GMT
elricaltovilla Yes, you could just put the exact same list in SOTN and all of the warriors would be Northkin and thus get +2 STR or +1 SPD. The Sorcerers can give the units magic weapon so that is covered. You would lose the RFP and +2 Deployment, but I think you might come out ahead, depending on the meta.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 26, 2017 18:50:15 GMT
TBH I don't like that setup. You could trade the sorcerers in plus the gremlin for an entire unit of Fenns with UA or Tuffaloes as a first wave. Outside of the utility of removing debuffs that aren't rebuke (IDK how many of those you actually care about) and magical weapons if you're having incorporeal problems that the stone can't handle (as you aren't in Northkin theme and can't benefit from the cold stone) I'd MUCH rather spend those points on things that actually do work.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 26, 2017 18:58:22 GMT
It's a silly spam list. I'd never take it to a tournament (not that I ever plan on going to one) but it might be fun for a game or two. I've already got a list that uses Fenns and they do great as a first wave, but I wanted to try something else since the Fenns can't really benefit from Madrak's feat.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 26, 2017 20:15:51 GMT
It's a silly spam list. I'd never take it to a tournament (not that I ever plan on going to one) but it might be fun for a game or two. I've already got a list that uses Fenns and they do great as a first wave, but I wanted to try something else since the Fenns can't really benefit from Madrak's feat. Then why post it in a dojo thread if it's a joke list you have no intention of trying to improve?
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Nov 26, 2017 20:50:47 GMT
In his defense, he did say it was just a dumb list in the original post. I like the Fennblades and actually think there’s an argument to be made that they should be the ones with the sorc attachment for bulk of attacks.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 26, 2017 21:40:40 GMT
The sorcerer on Fenns is an interesting idea that seems worth testing. My first couple reactions are negative, but the more considered reactions are ambivalent or even mildly positive.
I don't feel like the spell breaking will generally be worth much because rebuke is the only one I can think of that doesn't get them nearly all wiped out in one round, and the timing doesn't work to kill rebuke the turn you want to charge. The magic weapons, though... The reach magic weapons with cleave are something. I'm just not sure they are with losing 5+ (if he toughs) hit boxes on the champ unit.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 26, 2017 22:43:41 GMT
It's a silly spam list. I'd never take it to a tournament (not that I ever plan on going to one) but it might be fun for a game or two. I've already got a list that uses Fenns and they do great as a first wave, but I wanted to try something else since the Fenns can't really benefit from Madrak's feat. Then why post it in a dojo thread if it's a joke list you have no intention of trying to improve? That's a bit of a severe assumption. I have every intention of improving, but I've already got a Madrak1 + Fenns + Double Champs list. It was the first thing people started proposing as soon as he exited CID. I think there's value in off the wall lists because they keep people from getting stale in their list building. I've noticed a tendency for players to bandwagon onto one particular list as the only way to play a caster/theme. Finding something strange but with potential I think has value if only because it prevents players from becoming locked into one style of thinking. Here's my thinking: With three WAs on each champ unit you have an extra 15 hit points on the unit that can be used to soak damage and can be healed with Madrak's feat. If you use the champs to screen the sorcerers they can be protected from direct shooting and can see and shoot through the front line of Champs before they charge thanks to tactician. "RAT" 6, RNG 10, POW 12 can eat through a few screening troops to help your champs get further stuck in. With 6 shots and two sprays from the Fell Callers, there's actually a decent amount of ranged game compared to how I normally play trolls, at least. On top of that I did get some advice for improving the list that I'm going to use: switching to Storm of the North. Madrak may not have any upkeeps, but Immunity: Cold is helpful and the extra speed from the Northkin Elder will make the list noticeably faster. The option for +2 STR is also helpful because it's easier to use (for me) than Charge of the Trolls.
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Post by grabsnikk on Nov 26, 2017 23:17:48 GMT
Yeah Fire Eaters are the real deal. I'm trying to find a double bear double fire eaters shell I can get behind - there's a LOT of tinkering to do between now and LVO. I really want to try something similar and came up with this: War Room Army Trollblood - 75 - Jarl Theme: Storm of the North 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Jarl Skuld, Devil of the Thornwood - WB: +30 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Rök - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter - PC: 6 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Northkin Elder - PC: 0 Trollkin Champions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Skaldi Bonehammer - PC: 5 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7 THEME: Storm of the North --- GENERATED : 11/27/2017 12:16:44 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Nov 27, 2017 0:01:30 GMT
elricaltovilla - thats entirely fair, I was mainly going off of your response where you said it was a silly list good for a couple casual games. As for the case of the sorcerers as pinging tools it may be valid, I haven't had jam issues so far. grabsnikk - That list looks pretty solid, though I'm not sold on Hutchuk.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 27, 2017 0:12:15 GMT
Well, I only play casual games. I don't have anywhere near the experience necessary to play in a tournament, nor do I really want to right now. But that doesn't mean I don't want to be good at the game.
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