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Post by moridamn on Oct 23, 2017 2:25:42 GMT
So, I'm kinda new to trolls, but I can't help but think the swamp troll seems a little bit... Underwhelming? I've never seen one played yet and I never see anyone include them in their lists here. Anyone got any thoughts on when you'd include one in your list?
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Post by gobber on Oct 23, 2017 2:44:02 GMT
Dual attack+tongue. Best use of the swamp troll is charging some infantry or slamming a warjack (remember you can slam larger bases), then tonguing some officer, support model, or light jack from unexpected angles (and potentially making further melee attacks) all in the same activation. Gunnbjorn quite likes them (guided fire/killshot) and Grim1's return fire can be hilarious (they can shoot out of their melee); they're not what you reach for first but if you're looking to fill 8pts of beasts I've always found them pretty worthwhile
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Post by trollquinn on Oct 23, 2017 3:39:39 GMT
Man! I love my swamp troll... he killed quite a few casters for me... doomy 2 rushed and fly up the board, hit the caster with a tongue, drag him in then go to town... I really like the animus too...
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Post by mydnight on Oct 23, 2017 3:55:22 GMT
Nearly put 1 into my grim1 kriel company list, but then decided I'd rather have farrow valkyries.
I think you'd generally only bring him with a caster that can skew def, like borka1 and calandra and now madrak 1, and even then it doesn't work against jacks.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 23, 2017 6:27:38 GMT
I use it more often than one would think. It is not super great but it has a few things going for it. It can often reach two infantry guys and box them to death, and then shoot its tongue at a third. If you boost hit on all three attacks, you can often kill 3 infantry dudes in a round and that is decent.
It has pathfinder, so it can get places, and it can hide in forests.
It forces the opponent to at least remember that it COULD drag his caster out of place.
It is good against light jacks, especially cygnar chargers who do not like being engaged. They can be dragged.
Even without the animus it requires serious effort to kill one. Could be used to offer up for a piece trade.
Then you have the corner cases: Gunnbjorn can give it snipe, guided fire and kill shot. it becomes a really good infantry killer then.
Doomy 3 can allow it to cast its animus for free, and make him really hard to kill for a round (seriously, with spiny growth and sprint animus both being reduced to cost 1 in CID, i do not see why Swarm should remain at cost 2...)
Borka 2 can give it counter charge. It it has its animus up, and then counter charges something, you can move the -2 to hit bubble to a place where the opponent did not want/expect it. (Winter Trolls can do something similar with him and it is great!)
Calandra can really skew the defense making it super hard to kill. Very good for contesting.
There are basically three set ups where i consider the swamp troll.
In PoD when i have 5 heavies and can only afford a cheap light to fill out the points. In PoD when i have 4 heavies, and "split up" the 5th heavy in to two lights to have more game against infantry. In other themes when i have a King, and want a cheap second beast as a fury bank while still being able to take 60 points of infantry/battle engines.
All of this adds up to the point where i have a swamp troll in maybe 30% of my games. That is WAY higher than one would assume looking at its stats.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Oct 23, 2017 9:49:49 GMT
Everyone is looking at the Madrak1 Double Champions list and it seems strong.
However there is also the possibility that Madrak1 works better with a beast brick. If this is the case I would definitely include at least 1 Swamp Troll. Def 16 makes it very hard to kill and you inevitably include dhunian knot meaning it can really succeed at the drag assassinations.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Oct 23, 2017 10:20:21 GMT
I have one in my minimal battlegroup under Hunters grim, kriel company (along with a bomber). Love the model and the drag is something the opposing caster can't ignore (especially when grim hasn't popped the feat yet) and the same is true for supporting models given 13-20" of threat. I wouldn't be opposed to run mainly for assassination with KD on the warweagon's pie-plate and pingpong-lickytongueing a caster to death with a horde of swamptrolls, just for shits and giggles.
The animus is really good too, if I had 8 points that I could freely spend that alone is worth consideration (not that I ever have 8 points to spare).
For me it's more a question of what not to like about this beast.
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Post by moridamn on Oct 23, 2017 11:11:49 GMT
The whole thought came when I had a bit of flash that looked like a frog tongue, so I added it to a whelp to make him look like a swamp troll, which then had me thinking when I would actually use one.
These are all pretty good points. I will have to consider putting one in and trying it out next game
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Post by robbleyourworld on Oct 23, 2017 14:06:19 GMT
He seems pretty underwhelming at first glance but at 8 points he brings some pretty decent utility. Dual-attack and drag are great for getting to hard to reach solos, against heavy infantry he can pull the unit leader out of formation really screwing up their next activation, I love him for hunting lights like arc nodes or chargers, and he provides a decent cheap beast to initiate trades or as he can sit in zones contesting/controlling forcing your opponent to commit to killing it.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 23, 2017 15:50:46 GMT
What they said above, but I have to say that having him counter-charge in Borka2 with Animus is ridiculously good against Gargantua. A swamp troll and a whelp make it nearly impossible for them to hit anything. This is probably most important against them Mammoth given its ornery Animus.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Oct 24, 2017 19:51:51 GMT
Best use of the swamp troll is charging some infantry or slamming a warjack (remember you can slam larger bases), then tonguing some officer, support model, or light jack from unexpected angles Sounds like you've got a dirty swamp troll. I do declare!
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Oct 26, 2017 0:25:15 GMT
Two Swamp Trolls sitting on Janissa's hill in a Swamp Gobber's cloud, under Calandra's Star Crossed aura? Not quite as good as an EBDT 2" near a pond on Janissa's hill w/ same cloud, with Bullet Dodger, under Star Crossed aura (Thank you CID/PoD/Sea King)
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