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Post by galrohir on Oct 18, 2017 14:42:41 GMT
Equipping Gun Mages with pistols instead of rifles as standard. And those are just off the top of my head. I assumed they needed a free hand for magic stuff (i.e. shot type). Nah, magic in the IK only requires concentration, not any kind of gestures/words. Gun Mages are no exception, that's why Caine and Ryan (from the Black 13th) dual wield without any problems; and why Watts2 (Hellslingers) and the Arcane Tempest Rifleman have no problems either.
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 18, 2017 14:52:07 GMT
I assumed they needed a free hand for magic stuff (i.e. shot type). Nah, magic in the IK only requires concentration, not any kind of gestures/words. Gun Mages are no exception, that's why Caine and Ryan (from the Black 13th) dual wield without any problems; and why Watts2 (Hellslingers) and the Arcane Tempest Rifleman have no problems either. Ahhh I gotcha. I kinda imagine some sort of signage for magic, or at least an open hand.
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Post by mallios on Oct 18, 2017 16:02:45 GMT
Gun Mages can also teleport bullets into the chambers, I imagine that does something to the normal development cycle of firearms. If they were smart, they'd teleport bullets into the opposition...
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Post by W0lfBane on Oct 18, 2017 16:44:07 GMT
Gun Mages can also teleport bullets into the chambers, I imagine that does something to the normal development cycle of firearms. If they were smart, they'd teleport bullets into the opposition... So they can die of lead poisoning in the tummy 3 days later?
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Post by mallios on Oct 18, 2017 17:41:26 GMT
If they were smart, they'd teleport bullets into the opposition... So they can die of lead poisoning in the tummy 3 days later? Some of us might chose to aim for more critical areas than "the tummy."
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Post by elladan52 on Oct 18, 2017 18:09:22 GMT
Maybe you can only teleport to open space?
If that's true though, then you just teleport their brains into jars you keep on your belt, ya creep.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Oct 18, 2017 18:11:30 GMT
Where is it stated that blasting powder is that inferior to our own black powder? Also, if it is that weak (military rifle being as good as a bow, maybe less) why make them? A bow costs a lot less to produce, is easier to take care off and ammo are dirt cheap. No need of any special protection from water too. I just don't buy the idea that in the IK guns basically suck. The entire game rules are flawed of you think of them as BG representations of the battle, because there is no real way a non magical dude with a sword charging a colossal is going to hurt it. Retribution halberdiers can achieve stupid level of damage output, and they don't even wield two handed weapons. chargin weapon masters can scrap warjacks with a just a few attacks, and I get that they are elite and well trained soldiers (since they are WM) but no amount of training gets you through inches of solid steel and iron with a sword. you may dent it, maybe do some damage hitting weak spots, but wrecking it? no way. Same thing applies to personal armour. Plate armor basically trumped most one handed weapons in the world, and arrows were able to penetrate it only at very short range and with specialized bows/arrowtips. There are plenty of YT videos showing that plate armor can't be "cut" effectively, you need very heavy stuff like warhammers, halberds and poleaxes to do real damage. But in the IK, a dude clad in super plate armor is going to die with a single hit from a normal bow, or from a pirate cutlass. www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2w8HEgasqk watch this video to see how a well made, tempered steel armor holds against weapon strikes. So basically, never think about realism when dealing with IK rules.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Oct 18, 2017 18:42:29 GMT
It isn't stated in-fiction since they wouldn't have anything to compare it to, but it's been mentioned by PP before on the old forums and at Q&As. It's also pretty obvious given the range values available to us and the amount of damage they deal. Stats don't exactly equal fluff but they're indicative. If the average rifle has a pretty low chance of actually killing some guy in plate armor then the bullet can't be carrying a lot of energy; in real life plate armor fell out of favor partially because it doesn't save you from projectiles. As far as why use it instead of bows it's the same reason we started using it in real life instead of bows; less training. Any idiot can pick up a gun, point it at the baddies, and pull the trigger. Throw in some training and they can hit more often. It takes more practice and a fairly specific muscle build to draw a heavy recurve bow. As for your middle paragraph, you're correct in that rules don't exactly equal fluff but you're misunderstanding the ways that they represent fluff. Weapon Master doesn't necessarily mean that the user is just jack and and punch through battleship armor, it can also mean they're smart enough and skilled enough to know where to aim so they don't have to. A Dawnguard Sentinal charging a heavy warjack isn't going to just beat against the hull, they're going to go for the joints, the gaps between the armor plates, the hoses. They're controlled enough to make their attacks count rather than relying on brute force and they have mastered their weapons enough to apply them in the most effective possible way. Even if you don't have that kind of training you can make up for it in other ways. For example, the Houseguard Halberdiers Officer has a once-per-game ability called Team Effort that could represent the special training he's put his squad through to work in tandem with their shieldmate, or a moment of brilliant tactical command that lets him direct his men to attack an enemy's weak point, or a rousing speech that puts fire in your blood and convinces his squad to push beyond their limits. The game has to be simplified down to stats but that doesn't mean those stats are a 1:1 translation of what's happening. My favorite example of this is the Chimera light warjack. It's fluff describes it as having a power field that causes it to appear to flicker and shift to make it harder to attack; it's model has the rule Apparition that lets it be placed 2" away. This placement isn't because it's teleporting around, it signifies that the warjack was never actually in the previous location, your opponent was just fooled by it's power field. Again all of this comes down to rule of cool, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some internal logic that can be fun to talk about. Edit: Found a link of Seacat talking about blasting powder. Doesn't cover it's power vs IRL gunpowder but it has some neat info about production and drawbacks: privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?77295-Doug-Seacat-on&p=1412140&viewfull=1#post1412140
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Post by galrohir on Oct 18, 2017 20:26:41 GMT
I mean the funny thing is that Armour in the IKRPG technically doesn't do anything vs guns. If you look at armor values vs POW of weapons, not even the heaviest of them available (Bastion Heavy Plate, with an armor rating of 10) actually stops even the flimsiest of pistols (POW 10).
Which just makes me smile about imagining every armor being swiss cheese by the end of a fight.
And taking down warjacks with bladed weapons would actually pretty doable. If you look at most warjack designs, every single one of their joints is open, and the inside is basically clockwork and pneumatic pistons/hoses. Pretty easy to damage something vital.
The real question is why do people put the cortex in the head instead of in the chest, where it's most protected. Not sure if that's ever been answered before.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Oct 18, 2017 20:50:49 GMT
The real question is why do people put the cortex in the head instead of in the chest, where it's most protected. Not sure if that's ever been answered before. The cortex is in the chest, you can see it in the exploded view art in the Khador and Retribution command books and there's a few instances in the fluff of warjacks losing their heads and still functioning. They can't see of course but they can still think. Also in the Way of Caine I think he talks about looking in at Aces cortex through a panel in the top of the hull. Heck, the cortex is usually bigger than the head.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 18, 2017 20:51:35 GMT
The real question is why do people put the cortex in the head instead of in the chest, where it's most protected. Not sure if that's ever been answered before. Is it in the head? I was always under the impression that it was in the body. In the case of the Protectorate, behind the cabinet above the head on the Crusader chassis.
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Post by galrohir on Oct 18, 2017 21:14:59 GMT
I could've sworn it's been described as being in the head in a short story were Rutger Shaw stabs a 'jack through the head and cripples the Cortex, but I can't actually find it.
Blame my horrible memory then.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Oct 18, 2017 21:17:51 GMT
It's possible he stabbed all the way through from the head into the cortex, his sword is mechanika if I remember correctly. I've been trying to find the exploded view art from one of the Forces of Warmachine books but I haven't been able to track it down online.
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Post by welshhoppo on Oct 18, 2017 21:19:24 GMT
The cortex is in the upper chassis. At least on Khador Jacks they are kept under the plate on top. You can see a little handle where you can access it.
The head just contains some sensory equipment.
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Post by galrohir on Oct 18, 2017 21:23:14 GMT
I mean my (horrible) memory tells me he stabbed it from below, but who knows. Still, no need. I went looking for mentions in the books I have available and every Cortex being in broken in Aftershock 2 is from body blows. As for the image, do you mean this one? imgur.com/a/jLGrc
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