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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2017 14:04:29 GMT
I was just fiddling with Conflict Chamber, building a sort of general Northkin list for Calandra. My rule of thumb is that is soemthing does not work with Calandra, it probably does not work at all  I wanted a very minimal battle group for this list, so I went with Rök + Ice Troll. Then i got to thinking about the combo with Rök + HHH + Bullet dodger. It seems hilarious. If you hit Rök, he stumbles away If you miss Rök, he dodges away At DEF 14 plus Star Crossed, with no knock down and ARM 20, those two things make for a stupidly difficult to kill beast. Sure, you can box him in, and he might stumble the wrong way and all that, but just make sure you inform the opponent about the interaction on beforehand and watch their expression |
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 16, 2017 14:09:05 GMT
I mean this also works for any heavy haha. Brawler? Hit him, he stumbles and can ret strike you, (I think you choose the order of ret strike and stumbling drunk) miss him he dodges and laughs at you.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2017 14:26:31 GMT
Sure does |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 16, 2017 15:08:33 GMT
That's great. Note that since you're using the Hooch Hauler to get Stumbling Drunk as opposed to the bond, that can be any Northkin beast, though the only other heavy IIRC is the Brawler. That's not a bad team right there, though.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 16, 2017 15:12:13 GMT
That's great. Note that since you're using the Hooch Hauler to get Stumbling Drunk as opposed to the bond, that can be any Northkin beast, though the only other heavy IIRC is the Brawler. That's not a bad team right there, though. What about using it on an edit: Winter troll* who can dodge or stumble away from the heavy but still be in 2" and trigger his animus? That seems hilariously obnoxious! |
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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2017 16:45:48 GMT
That's great. Note that since you're using the Hooch Hauler to get Stumbling Drunk as opposed to the bond, that can be any Northkin beast, though the only other heavy IIRC is the Brawler. That's not a bad team right there, though. What about using it on an ice troll who can dodge or stumble away from the heavy but still be in 2" and trigger his animus? That seems hilariously obnoxious! Yup. Gotta get that in there instead of the ice troll |
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656 
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Post by gdnerd on Oct 16, 2017 17:50:28 GMT
It seems like an amusing combination but IDK how functional it'll be. Perhaps its my obsession with hitting first and so hard that your opponent will never retaliate, but I REALLY don't like spending large points on melee presence with Calandra. Why let your opponent take the first swing and MAYBE succeed when you can just hit first and never risk the hit in the first place?
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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2017 19:03:14 GMT
It seems like an amusing combination but IDK how functional it'll be. Perhaps its my obsession with hitting first and so hard that your opponent will never retaliate, but I REALLY don't like spending large points on melee presence with Calandra. Why let your opponent take the first swing and MAYBE succeed when you can just hit first and never risk the hit in the first place? Well, calandra has sort of a 3" threat extension in befuddle. She can hit first too if it comes to that. But the rest of the list was double raiders, HHH and champions. That is plenty of ranged threat, and then after you get stuck in, you have a siezable melee threat to follow up with. I guess the difference between this type of list and the Doomy 2 type is that Doomy wants to make a huge alpha strike, and kill everything at once, but he is not super keen on doing a partial alpha. If you can not manufacture the huge alpha, it becomes a bit hard. Calandra is not as reliant on hitting first with everything, since she has tools to mitigate the counter punch/alpha, and when she DOES get to hit, she hits harder than Doomy due to the feat. I guess she is a bit less black/white than doomy 2. Would you agree? |
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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2017 19:05:21 GMT
oh, and the fact that you can not reliably piece trade against something like a bullet dodged heavy means that opponents often chose to either over commit (fine for you), or under commit (even better) or just back off and wait (also a fine option for you).  |
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Post by mydnight on Oct 16, 2017 19:22:27 GMT
Still waiting for CAlandra+Seaking+earthborn to take off once the SotN update takes place.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Oct 16, 2017 19:55:19 GMT
It seems like an amusing combination but IDK how functional it'll be. Perhaps its my obsession with hitting first and so hard that your opponent will never retaliate, but I REALLY don't like spending large points on melee presence with Calandra. Why let your opponent take the first swing and MAYBE succeed when you can just hit first and never risk the hit in the first place? Well, calandra has sort of a 3" threat extension in befuddle. She can hit first too if it comes to that. But the rest of the list was double raiders, HHH and champions. That is plenty of ranged threat, and then after you get stuck in, you have a siezable melee threat to follow up with. I guess the difference between this type of list and the Doomy 2 type is that Doomy wants to make a huge alpha strike, and kill everything at once, but he is not super keen on doing a partial alpha. If you can not manufacture the huge alpha, it becomes a bit hard. Calandra is not as reliant on hitting first with everything, since she has tools to mitigate the counter punch/alpha, and when she DOES get to hit, she hits harder than Doomy due to the feat. I guess she is a bit less black/white than doomy 2. Would you agree? But you can run something like MK Double Bomber in PoD and poke them with super value on the shots, discourage them from coming in with Star Crossed, and if they ever give you too good of a turn you will table them. Alternatively you can have a really hard to kill Rok whose threat caps out at 11" with an axer unless you risk callandra / your opponent doesn't respect the Runebearer. Think of it this way: If you hit first and succeed in killing everything you want, you probably win. If you hit first and fall short your opponent gets to take a crack at you. If their crackback succeeds they probably win. If their crackback fails you get another shot and probably win. If you play defensively and they force things through, you probably lose. If they fall short you get a shot to use your piece and probably win. If you fall short your opponent gets a second crack at you. If their crackback succeeds they probably win. If their crackback fails you probably win. By playing a slower defensive style you're giving your opponent a low % chance to screw you over in return for delivering a slower + harder hitting option. The output increase has to be proportionally superior to the % chance of losing you've just tacked on to make it worth it. Her feat and re-rolls are nice but in my experience Trolls very rarely need help with their raw output if you're playing an honest attrition game. Accuracy improvements yes (hence why Doom2, Doom3 and Gunnbjorn are so good atm with Grim coming to a meta near you soon), but much less so with damage. Especially with beast/jack bricks becoming a little less common as the meta shifts to more infantry. |
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Post by Trollock on Oct 16, 2017 20:06:01 GMT
Oh, I think we are discussing two different things here. I am not saying that Calandra with Rök is the next meta bender. I am just saying it is a cute interaction, and when playing calandra you usually have a chip and a chair against ALMOST anything. There are exceptions of course, but i am sure you get to play a game with this against most things. You may very well have a better chance with another list. This is more of a "take a deep breath and lets experiment" sort of situation lol |
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Oct 16, 2017 20:13:13 GMT
Thats fair. Though you could accomplish the same thing with Borka1 and WESJ. Same points investment but more effectively resolves the issues with fielding Rok.
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Post by Trollock on Oct 17, 2017 6:00:17 GMT
But then you do not have dodge on Rök...
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Oct 17, 2017 7:09:03 GMT
Thats fair, I might be undervaluing Dodge / overvaluing the spell immunity here. It's an amusing damned if you do / damned if you don't combo.
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