haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Post by haurukh on Oct 3, 2017 10:00:58 GMT
Actually, counter-charge on a SPD 7 model with flight is really extremely good for annoyance. You can hide behind your beasts/infantry and charge over them to apply annoyance without risk of getting engaged.
Or you could place the Harrier outside a zone/flag area where it is hard to shoot, then charge in once your opponent moves something in to score. After the charge, you are now engaged in melee, so it is hard to shoot him now at DEF 17.
You might even be able to contest/score something in your turn, then charge him out of danger if it is clear it will be cleared out anyway, and create problems in a different place.
I think a harrier with counter-charge really lives up to it's name ^^
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Post by wkm on Oct 3, 2017 13:05:42 GMT
Like the blighted bite idea not just for the Harrier but as "design space" for some current or future models. Anyway using your idea for a defensive Harrier here is what I dreamed up. Speed 7, Mat 5, Def 13, Arm 13, Flight, Countercharge, Winged Cover - FF +1 Def against shooting, enemy living models -1 Mat within 3" Blighted Bite - 9 any model damaged by this attack receives -1 Mat for 1 round. So basically the Harrier gets an upgraded annoyance that a. covers a larger area b. grants protection against shooting. The +1 against shooting allows it to contribute on the advance while flight & countercharge allows it to apply the -1 Mat where desired. I had played around with countercharge in my head but nothing I came up with made since until I saw copperflames suggestion so when the Harrier connects it adds up to -2 mat to a target model. Since it's on damage and with lessers terrible base Mat I think this keeps it from being OP on a cheap model like this. Thoughts? That seems like a lot of special rules for a 3 point model, that will never fly. I think at the very least, one of those effects will have to turn into an animus. My suggestion would be counter-charge, as there is already the Raek animus for that, so it cannot break any warlocks. Also 3 different def buffs is probably too much, and would not fit on the back of the card (most important factor when creating models! ) I think with a +1 Def for range and the normal annoyance aura he is fine. Thanks to counter charge, you can now move the annoyance aura around and make it more difficult for your opponent to simply stay out of melee with the Harrier. I also like the debuff on the bite as an idea, but it seems more realistic for PP to combine two existing effects (annoyance and counter charge). For me, counter charge animus + keeping annoyance seems a realistic expectation. Giving it a def aura against range would be the dream (and probably make him auto include in any list TBH). Ironically I combined annoyance and the ranged defence to try and simplify the rules set and with countercharge annoyance's range would be enough (this is what happens when you post while walking the baby to sleep in the middle of the night). Also see your point about the ranged defense aura likely being a bit much. Kind of like the Harrier keep the dodge animus as it can be descent on our casters and would rather it be on a lesser than on a model like Zuriel. You're last post about the flag made me think that countercharge might be a good way for the Harrier have a solo/UA hunter role it had in mk2 and a defensive role that PP seems to currently invision it's role. So maybe just countercharge and annoyance with the Dodge animus a blighted bite would be nice but not likely. Maybe I'm still asking for to much I'll have to play test to see.
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Post by copperflame on Oct 3, 2017 15:04:25 GMT
I really like the idea of Counter Charge on the Harrier, you could leave it there and I would be happy. On a side note, if the Raek got Elusive instead... they would be even more amazing (OP? idk). I already like Raeks and play them often but I don't really use the counter-charge. Then again, I'm not a good player so Back on the Harrier: I realized later that -melee damage would get us close to Tenacity again. But a 'blighted bite' that reduces melee damage I think would be great elsewhere [insert full release of copy rights so PP can use this suggestion without any fear of legal complications... as long its Legion *cough*]. I really like some extra defensive options against shooting. Would Winged Cover make the Harrier too good (at 3 points)... probably, because I would want to almost always take one. Maybe a better answer is to lower the point cost of our Neph Protector or change his animus back to Safe-Guard. Again, I would still love to sing Winged Cover be an option somewhere [insert full release of copy rights so PP can use this suggestion without any fear of legal complications... as long its Legion *cough cough*]. Anyway, I really like Counter Charge on the Harrier. ^_^
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haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Post by haurukh on Oct 3, 2017 15:26:14 GMT
I really like the idea of Counter Charge on the Harrier, you could leave it there and I would be happy. On a side note, if the Raek got Elusive instead... they would be even more amazing (OP? idk) I had the same idea of swapping animi between Raek and Harrier, and also got worried about elusive on a DEF 15 model. But hey, Scarsfell Griffins exist, so clearly this is totally reasonable ^^ Animus swap, and both models would be much better, without risk of the animus making any caster stronger than it is anyway. Full allowance for PP to do that and use any suggestion of mine in this forum free of charge
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 3, 2017 19:23:41 GMT
I really like the idea of Counter Charge on the Harrier, you could leave it there and I would be happy. On a side note, if the Raek got Elusive instead... they would be even more amazing (OP? idk) I had the same idea of swapping animi between Raek and Harrier, and also got worried about elusive on a DEF 15 model. But hey, Scarsfell Griffins exist, so clearly this is totally reasonable ^^ Animus swap, and both models would be much better, without risk of the animus making any caster stronger than it is anyway. Full allowance for PP to do that and use any suggestion of mine in this forum free of charge Adding on to the idea. prolly an off-topic sort of thing but- Neph Soldier needs the scythean's animus
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 3, 2017 19:51:34 GMT
Adding on to the idea. prolly an off-topic sort of thing but- Neph Soldier needs the scythean's animus I think I brought it up earlier when talking about Zuriel. For the Harrier and Raek, I think people should keep in mind, that the Raek has ECR and so has a longer range it can safely counter-charge. Depending on your warlock, it might not be as useful on the Harrier if it has to stay within control range. On the other hand, if you're using it as an annoyance missile, you don't have to worry.
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Post by copperflame on Oct 3, 2017 21:18:50 GMT
I completely agree @forever_Blight. I know that models don't need to be 'pefect' but man, it would go a long way for a model to 'do' what it is supposed to do.
Animus Changes Neph Solider - apply 'Grevious Wounds' Neph Protector - apply 'no knockdown' Neph Bloodseer... umm, I'm happy with him actually...
bonus Scythean - apply 'Overtake'
but yea, I think we covered these. I'm behind on my games so I haven't even really tried to abuse BlightWasps yet, then to try out some of these 'suggestions' discussed on this thread. Admittedly, I got side tracked by the Themes that hit.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 3, 2017 22:10:58 GMT
copperflameI don't know how long you've been playing Legion, but the sad part about the Protector is that its old animus did exactly that. Safeguard also prevented stationary and collateral damage as well as reducing slam distance. And the absolute worst part is that almost everyone else, ie Troll Bouncer, Cyclops Brute, Woldwatcher, got to keep their anti-knockdown animus while only were forced to lose it. As powerful as it is, I don't think sole access to Slip Stream makes up for it.
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Post by wkm on Oct 4, 2017 0:43:34 GMT
copperflameI don't know how long you've been playing Legion, but the sad part about the Protector is that its old animus did exactly that. Safeguard also prevented stationary and collateral damage as well as reducing slam distance. And the absolute worst part is that almost everyone else, ie Troll Bouncer, Cyclops Brute, Woldwatcher, got to keep their anti-knockdown animus while only were forced to lose it. As powerful as it is, I don't think sole access to Slip Stream makes up for it. To the people suggesting Safeguard for the Protector wouldn't that possibly be to powerful with Guard Dog or are we talking about an exchange of sorts (would love Safeguard though).
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 4, 2017 5:14:04 GMT
copperflame I don't know how long you've been playing Legion, but the sad part about the Protector is that its old animus did exactly that. Safeguard also prevented stationary and collateral damage as well as reducing slam distance. And the absolute worst part is that almost everyone else, ie Troll Bouncer, Cyclops Brute, Woldwatcher, got to keep their anti-knockdown animus while only were forced to lose it. As powerful as it is, I don't think sole access to Slip Stream makes up for it. To the people suggesting Safeguard for the Protector wouldn't that possibly be to powerful with Guard Dog or are we talking about an exchange of sorts (would love Safeguard though). My thoughts exactly. Ornery isn't great, but Safeguard would be too good stacked with Guard Dog (both for the guard dogger and the guard doggee).
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Post by copperflame on Oct 4, 2017 14:37:22 GMT
Umm... right after when MK2 came out? That is why I referenced it, I want it back *queue bad '90s boy band music now* Ahem - anyway... too good for 10points? I'm on the fence about that one but I would definitely heed the word of those wiser than I.
Ornery downright sucks imo (for this model). If it worked more like retaliatory strike when your Warlock was hit (or missed?), then there is some use there. Or if it was on a model who was 'sticky' (like Proteus' animus with Ornery as just an ability - just tanky enough to get a few hits out of it but nothing OP) - then it would be amazing.
I would be happy with a reduction of cost - something that simple. I do like the Protector, just seem to pay a lot for what he does. (again, not every model can be perfect).
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 4, 2017 15:03:28 GMT
Umm... right after when MK2 came out? That is why I referenced it, I want it back *queue bad '90s boy band music now* Ahem - anyway... too good for 10points? I'm on the fence about that one but I would definitely heed the word of those wiser than I. Ornery downright sucks imo (for this model). If it worked more like retaliatory strike when your Warlock was hit (or missed?), then there is some use there. Or if it was on a model who was 'sticky' (like Proteus' animus with Ornery as just an ability - just tanky enough to get a few hits out of it but nothing OP) - then it would be amazing. I would be happy with a reduction of cost - something that simple. I do like the Protector, just seem to pay a lot for what he does. (again, not every model can be perfect). I like the idea of a an animus that gave the protector guardian beast.
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Post by mallios on Oct 7, 2017 16:41:40 GMT
What if the Shredders' animus granted Sic'em(Warbeast)?
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 8, 2017 0:24:17 GMT
What if the Shredders' animus granted Sic'em(Warbeast)? How would that function?
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Post by mallios on Oct 8, 2017 0:32:56 GMT
What if the Shredders' animus granted Sic'em(Warbeast)? How would that function? It would work similarly to how it does on the War Wolf. The Shredder would get an out-of-activation Charge against an enemy hit by a friendly Warbeast.
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