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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 24, 2017 23:20:06 GMT
ForEver_Blight How are your Legionnaires bit getting shot or run off the board? I'd be okay with them if they went back to their cheaper price point, but it seems that PP wants them to be a counter point to Swordsmen. Next, would giving parry to our warlocks really break the game? I usually see their stats of 14/16 or 16/14 as old (wo)man stats. It's not like we have a Kromac or Butcher that can abuse the rule anyway. Our longest threat range casters, Rhyas/Twins both have some form of parry standard and neither of them are tearing up the scene. davycannonhound In case it wasn't clear, I meant only for Farilor to have and offensive set of rules and the non-character CA to have a defensive. With some more changes these are the rules i think Legionnaires should have: Base unit: wall of steel>Blade Shield, cma>gang, and vengeance>Set Defense CA: Granted Defensive Strike, Tactics Set Defense CA(alt) Granted Defensive Line, Tactics Tough Farilor Granted Flank, Serpent's Coil This way Swordsmen and Legionnaires have the same DEF against shooting and charges, but Legionnaires survive blast damage while Swordsmen do more damage. I personally think it's pointless to buff ARM on single wound models, so that's why I went with Blade Shield and Set Defense. I would also like to add that the parry ability is a bit circumstantial. I could also add "gains parry against larger based models" for more nerfing. In fact, I may do that now. Oh okay I see. Makes more sense now. As for armor on single wound, I agree to some extant. When calculating trying to guess potential damage, I'd generally remove about four armor points simply for the fact that all thats required is for their armor to be cracked.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 25, 2017 12:17:31 GMT
I would not say that Abby2 is gimmicky. But blightwasps can be used anywhere you need killing spree infantry clear. I've used BW's with Vayl 1 for incite, that's pretty great. Under Kryssa or Fyanna they are pow 14 with 8 attacks (4 boosted damage from the charge) to wreck light jacks. I sometimes take a bloodseer with them so he can put their animus up for them. They're just base line capable. Nothing fantastic but they do function as intended. "Work" is not the best term for what I get out of Legionnaires. They contest and hold zones like nobody's business when you take some incubi with them. Otherwise they are never fast enough to get to any meaningful target that doesn't just walk up in their face. But just because they don't wreck enemy models with damage does not mean they are useless. I can see the tactical value in SR2017 to have a really solid contesting unit. Just don't put them anywhere near an enemy Seether >.> Point cost is the easiest way to not cause rule bloat to make something "worth" it's points. The second easiest would be statline changes. Adding rules on top of rules (especially conditional ones) just causes ridiculous complication to an other wise simple model. I can understand the sentiment that you want them to do legitimate "work" in terms of trading points for points. I just don't ever want a "Swordsman-lite" unit. I am happy that legionnaires do a completely different job than swordsmen. I do not in anyway want legionnaires to try and be a high damage unit that they are clearly not designed to be. Parry on any of the Lylyths is powerful as they can just walk out of engagement and shoot. Thagrosh 2 would get to charge any model behind what he's engaged with(due to flight) and parry his way through. No we don't have a Butcher in the most obvious of terms. But we can set up some extremely powerful melee threats. Abby 2 + BB under feat is Pow 18 claws and can steal fury with her pow 16 tail. Bethayne under feat and invocation of blood is a pow 14 weaponmaster who can also benefit from BB for pow 16. Then add Kiss on top of those. Thagrosh 1 can walk away with parry to mutagenesis another model further way and jump way across the board. Having blanket access to parry is extremely powerful for anyone. Then, about the defense stats - Sevvy would like a word with you
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 25, 2017 15:04:16 GMT
I would not say that Abby2 is gimmicky. But blightwasps can be used anywhere you need killing spree infantry clear. I've used BW's with Vayl 1 for incite, that's pretty great. Under Kryssa or Fyanna they are pow 14 with 8 attacks (4 boosted damage from the charge) to wreck light jacks. I sometimes take a bloodseer with them so he can put their animus up for them. They're just base line capable. Nothing fantastic but they do function as intended. "Work" is not the best term for what I get out of Legionnaires. They contest and hold zones like nobody's business when you take some incubi with them. Otherwise they are never fast enough to get to any meaningful target that doesn't just walk up in their face. But just because they don't wreck enemy models with damage does not mean they are useless. I can see the tactical value in SR2017 to have a really solid contesting unit. Just don't put them anywhere near an enemy Seether >.> Point cost is the easiest way to not cause rule bloat to make something "worth" it's points. The second easiest would be statline changes. Adding rules on top of rules (especially conditional ones) just causes ridiculous complication to an other wise simple model. I can understand the sentiment that you want them to do legitimate "work" in terms of trading points for points. I just don't ever want a "Swordsman-lite" unit. I am happy that legionnaires do a completely different job than swordsmen. I do not in anyway want legionnaires to try and be a high damage unit that they are clearly not designed to be. Parry on any of the Lylyths is powerful as they can just walk out of engagement and shoot. Thagrosh 2 would get to charge any model behind what he's engaged with(due to flight) and parry his way through. No we don't have a Butcher in the most obvious of terms. But we can set up some extremely powerful melee threats. Abby 2 + BB under feat is Pow 18 claws and can steal fury with her pow 16 tail. Bethayne under feat and invocation of blood is a pow 14 weaponmaster who can also benefit from BB for pow 16. Then add Kiss on top of those. Thagrosh 1 can walk away with parry to mutagenesis another model further way and jump way across the board. Having blanket access to parry is extremely powerful for anyone. Then, about the defense stats - Sevvy would like a word with you I will agree that I don't want legionnaires to be swordsmen-lite. With their current ruleset (vengeance, combo strike) thats what they feel like. Thats why I went for all armor (and a tiny bit of defense) and absolutely no offensive abilities whatsoever. By the way, I changed unyielding for tough. Do you approve? My goal with this thread is to do testing in vassal with these models and send the results to PP. (Same thing with my custom warlocks thread) I kept that in mind, and made added the clause to sneak saying that the model you want to parry has to be larger than you, in addition to being engaged in melee by a Friendly Faction model.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on Sept 25, 2017 15:35:57 GMT
I would not say that Abby2 is gimmicky. But blightwasps can be used anywhere you need killing spree infantry clear. I've used BW's with Vayl 1 for incite, that's pretty great. Under Kryssa or Fyanna they are pow 14 with 8 attacks (4 boosted damage from the charge) to wreck light jacks. I sometimes take a bloodseer with them so he can put their animus up for them. They're just base line capable. Nothing fantastic but they do function as intended. "Work" is not the best term for what I get out of Legionnaires. They contest and hold zones like nobody's business when you take some incubi with them. Otherwise they are never fast enough to get to any meaningful target that doesn't just walk up in their face. But just because they don't wreck enemy models with damage does not mean they are useless. I can see the tactical value in SR2017 to have a really solid contesting unit. Just don't put them anywhere near an enemy Seether >.> Point cost is the easiest way to not cause rule bloat to make something "worth" it's points. The second easiest would be statline changes. Adding rules on top of rules (especially conditional ones) just causes ridiculous complication to an other wise simple model. I can understand the sentiment that you want them to do legitimate "work" in terms of trading points for points. I just don't ever want a "Swordsman-lite" unit. I am happy that legionnaires do a completely different job than swordsmen. I do not in anyway want legionnaires to try and be a high damage unit that they are clearly not designed to be. Parry on any of the Lylyths is powerful as they can just walk out of engagement and shoot. Thagrosh 2 would get to charge any model behind what he's engaged with(due to flight) and parry his way through. No we don't have a Butcher in the most obvious of terms. But we can set up some extremely powerful melee threats. Abby 2 + BB under feat is Pow 18 claws and can steal fury with her pow 16 tail. Bethayne under feat and invocation of blood is a pow 14 weaponmaster who can also benefit from BB for pow 16. Then add Kiss on top of those. Thagrosh 1 can walk away with parry to mutagenesis another model further way and jump way across the board. Having blanket access to parry is extremely powerful for anyone. Then, about the defense stats - Sevvy would like a word with you . For bethayne, without looking it up, does this include the possible -2 arm from decimation?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 25, 2017 15:39:51 GMT
I will agree that I don't want legionnaires to be swordsmen-lite. With their current ruleset (vengeance, combo strike) thats what they feel like. Thats why I went for all armor (and a tiny bit of defense) and absolutely no offensive abilities whatsoever. By the way, I changed unyielding for tough. Do you approve? My goal with this thread is to do testing in vassal with these models and send the results to PP. (Same thing with my custom warlocks thread) I kept that in mind, and made added the clause to sneak saying that the model you want to parry has to be larger than you, in addition to being engaged in melee by a Friendly Faction model. ooooh. This isn't just "wishing" you are specifically testing this. That's a different story. I think that they are less out of bounds powerful. It is worth testing. I think sturdy is too situational to make a huge difference and could be dropped and they not really notice. I'm still not sure about the scurry. Test it and see how often it comes up.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 25, 2017 15:43:43 GMT
Parry on any of the Lylyths is powerful as they can just walk out of engagement and shoot. Thagrosh 2 would get to charge any model behind what he's engaged with(due to flight) and parry his way through. No we don't have a Butcher in the most obvious of terms. But we can set up some extremely powerful melee threats. Abby 2 + BB under feat is Pow 18 claws and can steal fury with her pow 16 tail. Bethayne under feat and invocation of blood is a pow 14 weaponmaster who can also benefit from BB for pow 16. Then add Kiss on top of those. Thagrosh 1 can walk away with parry to mutagenesis another model further way and jump way across the board. Having blanket access to parry is extremely powerful for anyone. Then, about the defense stats - Sevvy would like a word with you . For bethayne, without looking it up, does this include the possible -2 arm from decimation? No, decimation costs her 3 bought attacks. If you really needed it you could get to a total of pow 20 WM with the BB, decimation, invocation, and kiss. But only 2 initials and 2 bought attack. The pow 16 is just invocation and BB which would give 2 + 5 bought attacks.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 25, 2017 21:56:00 GMT
davycannonhound In case it wasn't clear, I meant only for Farilor to have and offensive set of rules and the non-character CA to have a defensive. With some more changes these are the rules i think Legionnaires should have: Base unit: wall of steel>Blade Shield, cma>gang, and vengeance>Set Defense CA: Granted Defensive Strike, Tactics Set Defense CA(alt) Granted Defensive Line, Tactics Tough Farilor Granted Flank, Serpent's Coil This way Swordsmen and Legionnaires have the same DEF against shooting and charges, but Legionnaires survive blast damage while Swordsmen do more damage. I personally think it's pointless to buff ARM on single wound models, so that's why I went with Blade Shield and Set Defense. On your note of a non-character CA, I would like to propose changing that to a WA that adds spears (lets Kryssa make more sense). Thoughts?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 26, 2017 12:40:21 GMT
davycannonhound In case it wasn't clear, I meant only for Farilor to have and offensive set of rules and the non-character CA to have a defensive. With some more changes these are the rules i think Legionnaires should have: Base unit: wall of steel>Blade Shield, cma>gang, and vengeance>Set Defense CA: Granted Defensive Strike, Tactics Set Defense CA(alt) Granted Defensive Line, Tactics Tough Farilor Granted Flank, Serpent's Coil This way Swordsmen and Legionnaires have the same DEF against shooting and charges, but Legionnaires survive blast damage while Swordsmen do more damage. I personally think it's pointless to buff ARM on single wound models, so that's why I went with Blade Shield and Set Defense. On your note of a non-character CA, I would like to propose changing that to a WA that adds spears (lets Kryssa make more sense). Thoughts? WA with Shield guard and/or road block would be awesome. Design them with heavy shields and spears.
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Post by HauRukh on Sept 26, 2017 14:20:10 GMT
I like the idea of reworking the Legionaires (and especially of actually testing out your ideas). Thanks for your effort there.
Since Legionaires have been discussed for a while, I was having some ideas on how to rework them myselves, and I thought maybe I should just share them and possibly inspire you:
1) Legionaires have to compete (inside Legion) with Swordsmen (High dmg, but die to blast), Hex Hunters (Magic weapons, pseudo-range and shenanigans with Bayal), Grotesques (cheap, fast jam) and Blight Blades (high def jam with ambush). 2) According to the look of their model, Legionaires should be more armored than other options and more defensive. Unfortunately, even ARM 20 dies to an average 11 roll of a charging pow 10 model. High ARM basically only helps against blast DMG, but they die to everything else and are not really threatening. 3) Legion as a faction is not meant to be overly defensive. Legion hits hard and in unepected angles, but dies easily. Giving LEgion a Khadoran style unit is something I do not find fitting. However, Legionaires in the fluff are a unit of elite bodyguards for Thagrosh (and other warlocks).
My conclusion from this is, that LEgionaires should somehow be defensive in an offensive way. Rather than being durable, they should DEFEND other models as bodyguards. Besides fluff, this would also help with the game, if Legionaires manage to protect our expensive other pieces somehow.
I therefore cam up with an idea, that would give them jamming/defensive potential in an agressive way: Counter Charge! Now of course having a 10man unit with counter charge might be over the top, so here are some ideas of variations that mgiht make this mroe playable:
1) Counter charge on every model: Maybe over the top, and hard to keep track of 10 models. 2) Counter charge on the Unit for one enemy: "Once per turn, if an enemy model comes within 6" of one model of this unit, any number of models in this unit can charge that model." This way, Legionaires pile up on a threat they see comming, get up the field, ruin enemies plans, and might actually do damage since it is a charge (potentially). 3) Assisting charge when a friendly model is threatened. "Once per turn, when an enemy model ends its movement within 6 inches of a friendly model, any number of models in this unit can charge that enemy model." This goes even closer to the body guard idea, and allows slightly further threat of the Legionaires (8" charge + reach). A variation could be to pick a body guard target for which this applies, similar to the Ogrun Bokurs client.
OF course there is lot sof room for making variations of this idea, for example the trigger range for counter charge could be command range of the leader etc. But I like the idea, fluff and game wise, of LEgionaires piling up on any threat on an important piece, throwing their lifes away for teh greater good of the dragon ^^
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 26, 2017 14:20:27 GMT
On your note of a non-character CA, I would like to propose changing that to a WA that adds spears (lets Kryssa make more sense). Thoughts? WA with Shield guard and/or road block would be awesome. Design them with heavy shields and spears. I was thinking repel and set defense. Road Block is interesting. Not sure about shield guard.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 26, 2017 14:24:40 GMT
I like the idea of reworking the Legionaires (and especially of actually testing out your ideas). Thanks for your effort there. Since Legionaires have been discussed for a while, I was having some ideas on how to rework them myselves, and I thought maybe I should just share them and possibly inspire you: 1) Legionaires have to compete (inside Legion) with Swordsmen (High dmg, but die to blast), Hex Hunters (Magic weapons, pseudo-range and shenanigans with Bayal), Grotesques (cheap, fast jam) and Blight Blades (high def jam with ambush). 2) According to the look of their model, Legionaires should be more armored than other options and more defensive. Unfortunately, even ARM 20 dies to an average 11 roll of a charging pow 10 model. High ARM basically only helps against blast DMG, but they die to everything else and are not really threatening. 3) Legion as a faction is not meant to be overly defensive. Legion hits hard and in unepected angles, but dies easily. Giving LEgion a Khadoran style unit is something I do not find fitting. However, Legionaires in the fluff are a unit of elite bodyguards for Thagrosh (and other warlocks). My conclusion from this is, that LEgionaires should somehow be defensive in an offensive way. Rather than being durable, they should DEFEND other models as bodyguards. Besides fluff, this would also help with the game, if Legionaires manage to protect our expensive other pieces somehow. I therefore cam up with an idea, that would give them jamming/defensive potential in an agressive way: Counter Charge! Now of course having a 10man unit with counter charge might be over the top, so here are some ideas of variations that mgiht make this mroe playable: 1) Counter charge on every model: Maybe over the top, and hard to keep track of 10 models. 2) Counter charge on the Unit for one enemy: "Once per turn, if an enemy model comes within 6" of one model of this unit, any number of models in this unit can charge that model." This way, Legionaires pile up on a threat they see comming, get up the field, ruin enemies plans, and might actually do damage since it is a charge (potentially). 3) Assisting charge when a friendly model is threatened. "Once per turn, when an enemy model ends its movement within 6 inches of a friendly model, any number of models in this unit can charge that enemy model." This goes even closer to the body guard idea, and allows slightly further threat of the Legionaires (8" charge + reach). A variation could be to pick a body guard target for which this applies, similar to the Ogrun Bokurs client. OF course there is lot sof room for making variations of this idea, for example the trigger range for counter charge could be command range of the leader etc. But I like the idea, fluff and game wise, of LEgionaires piling up on any threat on an important piece, throwing their lifes away for teh greater good of the dragon ^^ Interesting concept! I'll play around with it and see how I can integrate it.
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Post by copperflame on Sept 26, 2017 20:46:19 GMT
I am really late to this party – but I’m going to throw my 2 coppers in anyway. I’m a lush for this sort of stuff if you guys haven’t already figured that out by now.
Blighted Ogrun Warmongers I would LOVE if we had additional tools against Jacks [maybe even Colossals/Battle Engines]. Giving Warmongers the ability to help ‘counter’ Jacks would give them a unique niche in Legion. I would buy them in a heartbeat! Now – they may still suffer from ever getting TO their targets, as they do today. Would the idea be to use cheap jammers to hold the Jacks in place until the real threat gets there? If they had some defensive tech or extra mobility – would that make them too powerful and/or too expensive? I would think so, you can’t have everything. Maybe a natural counter to Warmongers should be range…
But MAN-O-MAN! If they could be an anti-Jack answer… I think I would be excited about using them.
Shredders Unfortunately, MK2 shredders were too good (between their offensive capabilities and animus). Now they are ‘pay 4 for 2 weapon master attacks if Flanking’. I don’t really care for them in MK3 but I see high caliber players use them for unjamming/finishers. That leads me to believe that they are about right where they are today (even if it pains me to say that).
I hate Adelphophagy (I never played MKI) – and if I was unaware of it, I would say that this was just to prevent shredder spam. I hate this rule, not only for the ‘nerf’ aspect for multiple shredders but for the over complicated state it makes the model’s rule set. I would love to see Adelphophagy drop completely but that may be a pipe dream since it’s a hark back to MK1.
I have thought round and round about Shredders. Anything from something simple like just dropping the PC cost by 1 point to a full redesign. If the PC is to stay the same (and it may need to with Flank), I would like to see the animus be useful while just giving the little critter pathfinder. I like the idea of Counter Charge or Counter Blast but that may be too powerful. Lightning Strike may be too powerful as well but at least then it would the land shark that I loved so much. I am not keen on Sneak… I don’t think it fits the model (but does fit the name Scurry… maybe for a different warbeast?). I lean to wanting my landsharks to be blitzing little missiles of flesh and teeth.
Stinger Man – these guys need some love. I really don’t care for ‘Crit Poison’ (or maybe it is the PC associated with it) on any of the legion beasts (Stinger, Teraph, Seraph? … only the Seraph is at a great PC). I have discussed many different suggestions before and I think most people agree that the hybrid nature of the Stinger is where it fails. I would much rather see its range game become better and let its melee game drop if I had to make a choice. Something as simple as increasing its RAT to make the spray/assault worth something might be enough but I don’t know.
If the vision is for the Stinger to remain a ‘Hybrid’…. Increase its point cost to 5 and give it the tools to be useful. Increase its RAT and change the ‘crit poison’ to an AP tail attack (adjust the base damage so its not OP).
For your suggestion, I don’t know if 8 inch spray would make the Stinger too good (though I don’t see assault on your version so maybe that is the tradeoff you made). I think I like assault but the RAT 4 makes it so pathetic to hit. You suggested an increase of RAT 5… idk, is that enough on a Fury 2 beast? Let me know what testing shows.
If we are looking to revamp…. Would it be too much for the Stinger to have some function to auto-boost it’s spray attack? Animus = ‘all attack rolls made during the next spray attack are automatically boosted’? Kryssa would love this… (I know Thag1/2 would to but still wouldn’t be too OP would it? Especially since all 3 have power stat in reference of their spray attacks). I would suggestion a full Predator’s Hunger (Zuriel MK2, how I miss thee) but L3 interaction was too strong I guess. Hence the limitation with spray, but you may still need to include non-warlock/caster clause here. Or if it was just a function of the model itself – or once per game… idk.
How the model ‘look’ is a factor of its function. I’m willing to ignore the tail strike but I don’t think PP would (or maybe even new players). So maybe keeping the rules as is but increasing its PC to 5 while gaining AP and better RAT is the way to go.
Harrier I disagree with repurposing Harrier as a ‘Solo-Hunger’. I don’t think this is what PP wants and I’m okay with that. What I am not okay with is its high PC compared to what it brings to the table. I would be just as happy if the PC dropped to 2 but that may be too low. If the goal is to keep the 3PC … I would like for it to provide just a bit more defensive addition. What if it the ‘annoyance’ gave a -2? What if it had Shield Guard? Just something a tiny bit more to make it a solid choice to have flying around. But I see where you are going with Extended Control Range. I must say… I don’t hate the idea at all.
Blight Wasps I am on the fence here. I plan on trying them out in every game for the next little while (Abb2, Fyanna2 and Lylyth 1). I want to find out what they really can do since I see good players use them. I don’t want to comment until I have that experience here.
Legionnaires People have already chimed in here… I really like the idea of counter charge on them… that would be awesome (given the description on how they bum rush a threat). Right now… I don’t even own these guys anymore – and I don’t care (until the Theme that comes out to make them OP). [Swordmen = high damage, Hex Hunters = anti-infrantry, Legos = defensive tech] trifecta!
I am super eager to hear your results. Though this is more of a fun exercise unless there is a CID but I love many of your suggestions!
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 26, 2017 23:53:53 GMT
I am really late to this party – but I’m going to throw my 2 coppers in anyway. I’m a lush for this sort of stuff if you guys haven’t already figured that out by now. Blighted Ogrun WarmongersI would LOVE if we had additional tools against Jacks [maybe even Colossals/Battle Engines]. Giving Warmongers the ability to help ‘counter’ Jacks would give them a unique niche in Legion. I would buy them in a heartbeat! Now – they may still suffer from ever getting TO their targets, as they do today. Would the idea be to use cheap jammers to hold the Jacks in place until the real threat gets there? If they had some defensive tech or extra mobility – would that make them too powerful and/or too expensive? I would think so, you can’t have everything. Maybe a natural counter to Warmongers should be range… But MAN-O-MAN! If they could be an anti-Jack answer… I think I would be excited about using them. ShreddersUnfortunately, MK2 shredders were too good (between their offensive capabilities and animus). Now they are ‘pay 4 for 2 weapon master attacks if Flanking’. I don’t really care for them in MK3 but I see high caliber players use them for unjamming/finishers. That leads me to believe that they are about right where they are today (even if it pains me to say that). I hate Adelphophagy (I never played MKI) – and if I was unaware of it, I would say that this was just to prevent shredder spam. I hate this rule, not only for the ‘nerf’ aspect for multiple shredders but for the over complicated state it makes the model’s rule set. I would love to see Adelphophagy drop completely but that may be a pipe dream since it’s a hark back to MK1. I have thought round and round about Shredders. Anything from something simple like just dropping the PC cost by 1 point to a full redesign. If the PC is to stay the same (and it may need to with Flank), I would like to see the animus be useful while just giving the little critter pathfinder. I like the idea of Counter Charge or Counter Blast but that may be too powerful. Lightning Strike may be too powerful as well but at least then it would the land shark that I loved so much. I am not keen on Sneak… I don’t think it fits the model (but does fit the name Scurry… maybe for a different warbeast?). I lean to wanting my landsharks to be blitzing little missiles of flesh and teeth. StingerMan – these guys need some love. I really don’t care for ‘Crit Poison’ (or maybe it is the PC associated with it) on any of the legion beasts (Stinger, Teraph, Seraph? … only the Seraph is at a great PC). I have discussed many different suggestions before and I think most people agree that the hybrid nature of the Stinger is where it fails. I would much rather see its range game become better and let its melee game drop if I had to make a choice. Something as simple as increasing its RAT to make the spray/assault worth something might be enough but I don’t know. If the vision is for the Stinger to remain a ‘Hybrid’…. Increase its point cost to 5 and give it the tools to be useful. Increase its RAT and change the ‘crit poison’ to an AP tail attack (adjust the base damage so its not OP). For your suggestion, I don’t know if 8 inch spray would make the Stinger too good (though I don’t see assault on your version so maybe that is the tradeoff you made). I think I like assault but the RAT 4 makes it so pathetic to hit. You suggested an increase of RAT 5… idk, is that enough on a Fury 2 beast? Let me know what testing shows. If we are looking to revamp…. Would it be too much for the Stinger to have some function to auto-boost it’s spray attack? Animus = ‘all attack rolls made during the next spray attack are automatically boosted’? Kryssa would love this… (I know Thag1/2 would to but still wouldn’t be too OP would it? Especially since all 3 have power stat in reference of their spray attacks). I would suggestion a full Predator’s Hunger (Zuriel MK2, how I miss thee) but L3 interaction was too strong I guess. Hence the limitation with spray, but you may still need to include non-warlock/caster clause here. Or if it was just a function of the model itself – or once per game… idk. How the model ‘look’ is a factor of its function. I’m willing to ignore the tail strike but I don’t think PP would (or maybe even new players). So maybe keeping the rules as is but increasing its PC to 5 while gaining AP and better RAT is the way to go. HarrierI disagree with repurposing Harrier as a ‘Solo-Hunger’. I don’t think this is what PP wants and I’m okay with that. What I am not okay with is its high PC compared to what it brings to the table. I would be just as happy if the PC dropped to 2 but that may be too low. If the goal is to keep the 3PC … I would like for it to provide just a bit more defensive addition. What if it the ‘annoyance’ gave a -2? What if it had Shield Guard? Just something a tiny bit more to make it a solid choice to have flying around. But I see where you are going with Extended Control Range. I must say… I don’t hate the idea at all. Blight WaspsI am on the fence here. I plan on trying them out in every game for the next little while (Abb2, Fyanna2 and Lylyth 1). I want to find out what they really can do since I see good players use them. I don’t want to comment until I have that experience here. LegionnairesPeople have already chimed in here… I really like the idea of counter charge on them… that would be awesome (given the description on how they bum rush a threat). Right now… I don’t even own these guys anymore – and I don’t care (until the Theme that comes out to make them OP). [Swordmen = high damage, Hex Hunters = anti-infrantry, Legos = defensive tech] trifecta! I am super eager to hear your results. Though this is more of a fun exercise unless there is a CID but I love many of your suggestions! Excellent feedback! Thankyou very much!! On the note of the stinger, the stinger's weapon was changed to a linear shot instead of a spray. Randomly decided to bump it up to rof 2, but I'm not sure if thats too much or not.
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 26, 2017 23:58:52 GMT
I'm gonna shift gears and propose some fixes for my favorite beast Zuriel. During the transition, Zuriel went from infantry burninator to a mixed bag of mediocrity. He hits /okay/ especially when combined with Precision Strike, Assault and Quick Work means he /can/ still burninate infantry if you get lucky and position well.
However, this is in a faction where Warlords/Swordsmen do almost as much damage for a fraction of the cost and Typhon and Deathstalkers already slaughter most infantry.
I don't think we need another bruiser beast, are stable already has Scytheans, Typhon, and Carniveans, so I'm going to try Zuriel a bit better as an all-rounder without making him all-powerful.
What I'd change would be: MAT>7 RAT>6 Assault>Dual Attack Quick Work>Kill Shot
So with these changes Zuriel trades a little(IMO superfluous) MATfor a boost in his RAT so his spray becomes more threatening. Next the change from Assault to Dual Attack still allows Zuriel to charge and spray while also allowing him to spray while locked in combat. This in turn is balanced by switching quick work to kill shot to limit him to 2 sprays per activation max. While this is similar to how he works currently, the hope is that these changes make him more consistent by guaranteeing the follow up spray and making it more accurate.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 27, 2017 0:46:40 GMT
I'm gonna shift gears and propose some fixes for my favorite beast Zuriel. During the transition, Zuriel went from infantry burninator to a mixed bag of mediocrity. He hits /okay/ especially when combined with Precision Strike, Assault and Quick Work means he /can/ still burninate infantry if you get lucky and position well. However, this is in a faction where Warlords/Swordsmen do almost as much damage for a fraction of the cost and Typhon and Deathstalkers already slaughter most infantry. I don't think we need another bruiser beast, are stable already has Scytheans, Typhon, and Carniveans, so I'm going to try Zuriel a bit better as an all-rounder without making him all-powerful. What I'd change would be: MAT>7 RAT>6 Assault>Dual Attack Quick Work>Kill Shot So with these changes Zuriel trades a little(IMO superfluous) MATfor a boost in his RAT so his spray becomes more threatening. Next the change from Assault to Dual Attack still allows Zuriel to charge and spray while also allowing him to spray while locked in combat. This in turn is balanced by switching quick work to kill shot to limit him to 2 sprays per activation max. While this is similar to how he works currently, the hope is that these changes make him more consistent by guaranteeing the follow up spray and making it more accurate. Interesting Ideas! I'll write up something for him soonish.
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