Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 24, 2017 23:03:34 GMT
I'm not a fan of Deathjack with Asphyxious3. He's super expensive and in order to add him I'll need to drop at least 2 heavies or a single heavy and 2 lights. Asphyxious doesn't really have any great spells for Deathjack, only Hex Blast & Hellfire. All Deathjack has going for him is Focus efficiency and his melee output, and while his output is great, in this build I'm not sure it's better than the outputs of everything I'd need to remove just to fit him in. As for Mechanithralls, well they're trash. With ambush they're ambushing trash. Some casters, Skarre1 & Deneghra1 for example, can get trash to do things, but Asphyxious3 is not one of those casters. If he's casting Calamity to support his Trashthralls that's 4 focus (you probably need to boost to hit) he's not using to support the Jack brick his army is built around. Honestly Ambushing Mechanithralls don't excite me. Ambush doesn't solve any of the Mechanithralls major problems. Their biggest flaw was never getting across the table, you can take them in enough numbers where that's not an issue. Their biggest flaw is the fact that once they get across the table they struggle to do anything relevant. Ambush makes it easy to deliver a single Mechanithrall unit, but that unit's still going to struggle to do anything relevant. I have to disagree about Deathjack! He's the second jack in my Gaspy3 lists most of the time because focus efficiency is Gaspy3's number one problem. He ALWAYS wants to cast something expensive (boosted Calamity, Mobility, Hex Blast), and he really wants to play forward and threaten a counterpunch with all his feat souls, so he needs to sit on at least 2 and probably 3 focus most turns. He can almost never afford to give more than one or two focus to his jacks outside of the post-feat turn, which means even with Warwitch assistance he probably wants a small but high quality batttlegroup. On top of that, Hex Blast is very useful for Deathjack to cast, IMO. It's not as broadly useful as TK or Ghost Walk (or even Locomotion) but it is handy when you really need to strip an upkeep and can't get into charge range. It's not that Deathjack is bad, but I just don't think he's as efficient as Seether double Inflictor. Hyper-Aggressive changes things a lot, especially Hyper-Aggressive Shield Guards & Counter Charger. You can run up extremely aggressively and your opponent will not be able to get much done with guns before your abilities close the gap for you. The Seether is also nearly as focus efficient as Deathjack is since it gets free charges and has Bezerk when fighting troops. Deathjack is a good Jack, but 23 points is a lot to pay for corner case synergies like Hex Blast when you can pick up a just as efficient Seether for nearly half the cost.
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145
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Post by kuarnix on Mar 25, 2017 0:59:03 GMT
Hmm, so pondering it a bit, I think there's likely something here with Venethrax. Battlegroup Hyper-Aggressive and Counter Charge seem like something that might give some opponents headaches. Also, I think that ambushing Mechanithralls are liable to work pretty well with Deadweight as a control measure.
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Mar 25, 2017 3:41:59 GMT
I have to disagree about Deathjack! He's the second jack in my Gaspy3 lists most of the time because focus efficiency is Gaspy3's number one problem. He ALWAYS wants to cast something expensive (boosted Calamity, Mobility, Hex Blast), and he really wants to play forward and threaten a counterpunch with all his feat souls, so he needs to sit on at least 2 and probably 3 focus most turns. He can almost never afford to give more than one or two focus to his jacks outside of the post-feat turn, which means even with Warwitch assistance he probably wants a small but high quality batttlegroup. On top of that, Hex Blast is very useful for Deathjack to cast, IMO. It's not as broadly useful as TK or Ghost Walk (or even Locomotion) but it is handy when you really need to strip an upkeep and can't get into charge range. It's not that Deathjack is bad, but I just don't think he's as efficient as Seether double Inflictor. Hyper-Aggressive changes things a lot, especially Hyper-Aggressive Shield Guards & Counter Charger. You can run up extremely aggressively and your opponent will not be able to get much done with guns before your abilities close the gap for you. The Seether is also nearly as focus efficient as Deathjack is since it gets free charges and has Bezerk when fighting troops. Deathjack is a good Jack, but 23 points is a lot to pay for corner case synergies like Hex Blast when you can pick up a just as efficient Seether for nearly half the cost. Deathjack wins when you give him an armor buff and you have living models for him to munch on (especially vengeance moves with agathia, you can give him his cortex and/or arms back before allocating focus). He's Agathia's favorite jack for that reason. Morty2 too.
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Post by citadel on Mar 25, 2017 4:24:56 GMT
Hmm, so pondering it a bit, I think there's likely something here with Venethrax. Battlegroup Hyper-Aggressive and Counter Charge seem like something that might give some opponents headaches. Also, I think that ambushing Mechanithralls are liable to work pretty well with Deadweight as a control measure. Funny you mention. This was a list I built earlier, and honesty I find it easy to swap 10 points from the BG for min mcthralls + 2 brutes ambushing. In the very least its a cheap unpredictable measure your opponent has to account for, amid the swarm of scav/stalker/slayer spam. Vene -WSC -Scav -Scav -Stalker -Stalker -Ripjaw -Ripjaw -Ripjaw -Ripjaw -Erebus -Inflictor Mcthralls -Brute -Brute Edit: Really most battlegroup forms with Venethrax work, and ambushing mcthralls with brutes might give your stalkers/scavengers deep-field ranged damage protection. You know that's not something I've thought about for a while now - ambushing for deep shield guard placement. Maybe, Shade 1 Soulgating a Deathjack/Seether [or some other self sufficient jack] super deep off a carrion thrall surrounded by max run distance mc w/ brute protection? Its not the worst idea, I don't think. I mean talk about delivery right?
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Grimolf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 246
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Post by Grimolf on Mar 25, 2017 18:03:42 GMT
Ok, I'm just looking for an excuse to bring Aiakos2 in any theme. So, here's my first try (not yet tested):
War Room Army
Cryx - Aiakos2 Infernal Machines
Theme: Infernal Machines 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Captain Aiakos - WJ: +29 - The Withershadow Combine - Maelovus, Admonia & Tremulus: 9 - Deathjack - PC: 23 (Battlegroup Points Used: 23) - Kharybdis - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Nightwretch - PC: 7
Warwitch Siren - PC: 0 Warwitch Siren - PC: 0 Machine Wraith - PC: 2
Mechanithralls - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10 Mechanithralls - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls - Necrosurgeon & 3 Grunts: 4 Soulhunters - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18
THEME: Infernal Machines ---
I liked the fact that you can get DJ in this theme, since I like having an extra source of Stranglehold or White Squall with him and DJ likes Assail. That's also why I have the Withershadow Combine. I also want to try out Kharybdis. That's a lot of points in jacks. The rest gives me 40 points in thralls to bring two free Warwitch Sirens (to help Aiakos keep some of his focus). Soulhunters get up the field fast to engage troublesome units and do what they do. Otherwise, I thought the min unit of mechs + brutes would stick with Aiakos and his jacks to provide shield guard (Aiakos2 is vulnerable to ranged), while the max unit of mechs would ambush. Not sure about the latter - perhaps that max unit should be a min unit with 2x Brute Thralls to allow for some extra punch in the ambushing unit (I'll need to get more brute thralls for that).
I may want to give up on the ambushing mechanithralls and maybe soulhunters to squeeze another jack into the list so as to take better advantage of Hyper Aggressive. We'll see.
I hope to try this soon.
Edited for some of the typos.
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Post by cheesejack on Mar 27, 2017 6:36:51 GMT
Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines
(Goreshade 3) Goreshade, Lord of Ruin [+27] - Sepulcher [36] - Skarlock Thrall [0] Mechanithralls (max) [10] Mechanithralls (max) [10] Mechanithralls (max) [10] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0] Soulhunters (max) [18] Soulhunters (max) [18]
Get to the middle asap using the soulhunters, the ambush mech thralls & the spell boosted spd 8 sepulcher. Goreshade's mockery of life is used to bring back any soulhunters that die. Sepulcher slowly exchanges corpse tokens to add brute thralls where needed. Jam anything that is harder to deal with feat, then focus it to death when you have dealt with the rest.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 27, 2017 9:40:11 GMT
Funny you mention. This was a list I built earlier, and honesty I find it easy to swap 10 points from the BG for min mcthralls + 2 brutes ambushing. In the very least its a cheap unpredictable measure your opponent has to account for, amid the swarm of scav/stalker/slayer spam. Vene -WSC -Scav -Scav -Stalker -Stalker -Ripjaw -Ripjaw -Ripjaw -Ripjaw -Erebus -Inflictor Mcthralls -Brute -Brute Edit: Really most battlegroup forms with Venethrax work, and ambushing mcthralls with brutes might give your stalkers/scavengers deep-field ranged damage protection. You know that's not something I've thought about for a while now - ambushing for deep shield guard placement. Maybe, Shade 1 Soulgating a Deathjack/Seether [or some other self sufficient jack] super deep off a carrion thrall surrounded by max run distance mc w/ brute protection? Its not the worst idea, I don't think. I mean talk about delivery right? You can't play Erebus in theme though. I would consider an ILO'd Seether, because it adds a lot of damage output and a source of Dark Shroud Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines (Goreshade 3) Goreshade, Lord of Ruin [+27] - Sepulcher [36] - Skarlock Thrall [0] Mechanithralls (max) [10] Mechanithralls (max) [10] Mechanithralls (max) [10] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0] Soulhunters (max) [18] Soulhunters (max) [18] Get to the middle asap using the soulhunters, the ambush mech thralls & the spell boosted spd 8 sepulcher. Goreshade's mockery of life is used to bring back any soulhunters that die. Sepulcher slowly exchanges corpse tokens to add brute thralls where needed. Jam anything that is harder to deal with feat, then focus it to death when you have dealt with the rest. What exactly is the Skarlock Thrall's role? It can't really cast anything useful for him in this edition. I would only take 1 unit of Soulhunters, because you can only give one Occultation. I would also take min units of Mechanithralls with Brutes, they're higher value and you should be able to keep the rest of the unit alive easily. Might be worth to invest in some Machine Wraiths as Scything Touch applicators and clutch feat targets.
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Post by cheesejack on Mar 27, 2017 10:35:28 GMT
What exactly is the Skarlock Thrall's role? It can't really cast anything useful for him in this edition. Oops, did I put down a skarlock? that's meant to be a warwitch siren.
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Post by Morganstern on Mar 27, 2017 17:52:17 GMT
War Room Army
Cryx - Deneghra 3
Theme: Infernal Machines 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Deneghra, the Soul Weaver - WJ: +27 - The Withershadow Combine - Maelovus, Admonia & Tremulus: 9 - Deathjack - PC: 23 (Battlegroup Points Used: 23) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) - Slayer - PC: 10 - Ripjaw - PC: 7
Pistol Wraith - PC: 0 Pistol Wraith - PC: 0 Soul Trapper - PC: 1 Soul Trapper - PC: 1
Mechanithralls - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 Mechanithralls - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 Soulhunters - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18
THEME: Infernal Machines ---
GENERATED : 03/27/2017 18:45:03 BUILD ID : 2036.17-02-03
I've been thinking about this list. I think I need another heavy but can't seem to be able to free up the points. I like that there are multiple options for soul gathering and the opportunity for 2 scourges.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 28, 2017 10:41:20 GMT
You could swap out soul hunters for a harrower or something, but that would lose you speed and accuracy for your infantry removal piece, and cost you a pistol wraith. Honestly between mortality and deathjack, even a colossal should not be too much of an obstacle with respects to armor cracking and even mechanithralls can do damage to khador heavies on a charge. Pistol wraiths for crowd control, soul trappers to feed denegra. I don't see anything wrong with what you have.
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Post by beardmonk on Mar 28, 2017 10:44:58 GMT
Iv been having good success with the below list. Iv dropped it into Retribution (Kaelyssa), Khador (Irusk1), and Trolls (Ragnor). I lost against Trolls due to a botched Assassination run
Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines
(Helleana 1, Morgaen 1 & Selene 1) The Witch Coven of Garlghast [+26] - Egregore - Deathripper [6] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] Bloat Thrall [0] Darragh Wrathe [9] Necrotech [2] Scrap Thrall [2] Soul Trapper [1] Bile Thralls (min) [9] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [3] Mechanithralls (max) [10] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [3] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0] Soulhunters (max) [18]
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Post by wseraphim on Mar 31, 2017 11:02:05 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#b41b_-0w16191v1v0t3h1u2n2n2tf02B2Bg71D1K26Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Venethrax 1) Lich Lord Venethrax [+26] - Deathripper [6] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Iron Lich Overseer [0] - Seether [13] Necrotech [2] Necrotech [2] Pistol Wraith [0] Soul Trapper [1] Warwitch Siren [4] Warwitch Siren [4] Carrion Thralls (max) [10] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Soulhunters (max) [18] Gonna try this next weekend against doomy3. deathripper for deadweight WSC for lamentation and mortality Carrions for some jamming and sacrifice to seether's tusks pistol wraith to counter admonition on heavies sirens to fuel ILO Seether ambushing McThralls I'm not sure if 10" seether's threat is scary enough and how this list will perform against 2xHighwaymen Hunter Grim list: theoretically, stealth should protect seether from mediocore shooting and 3 brutes should soak 3 CRA shots. Is it worth to cast Terminal Velocity only for two slayers, probably with 1-2 foc each?
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Post by tiberius on Mar 31, 2017 12:52:00 GMT
In my opinion, its only worth it if you need the extra threat range or need to hit a high defense like against Grimm himself. Against troll heavies, MAT 7 is good enough usually. I am surprised you are taking the ILO given Venethrax's penchant for wanting everything in his battlegroup. But let us know how it goes, I am interested in seeing.
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Post by wseraphim on Mar 31, 2017 13:18:02 GMT
ILO gives him effectively +4 POW(+6 with mortality on target) to Seether and still gives sort of power-up focus via Crush. Seether has countercharge on his own. With 2 foc on average dice this Seether deals 12+9+9+9+9+9 = 57 dmg on 21 ARM. All that Venethrax can give Seether is +2" threat extension and boosted attack for his 8 mat
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Post by tiberius on Mar 31, 2017 15:02:37 GMT
Good points, I have not used the seether much this edition, I really need to break it out. I had forgotten it had countercharge. I need to look at what it can do now.
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