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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 23, 2017 15:06:16 GMT
A stealthed seether can just counter charge can't it? One thing that I don't fully grasp about the list is how hyperaggressive interacts with countercharge. It's too bad that spell piercer and mechanism of destruction are turn and not round. Well, you can only Countercharge once.
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npe
Junior Strategist
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Post by npe on Mar 23, 2017 15:23:13 GMT
A stealthed seether can just counter charge can't it? One thing that I don't fully grasp about the list is how hyperaggressive interacts with countercharge. It's too bad that spell piercer and mechanism of destruction are turn and not round. Well, you can only Countercharge once. Good point.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
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Post by Deller on Mar 23, 2017 18:12:01 GMT
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Post by tarviche on Mar 26, 2017 5:40:29 GMT
I tried Morty 2 tonight, in IM theme with Deathjack, Inflictor and three Slayers (plus Carrions and support), against a Vlad1 Khador list with six jacks and support. It went terribly. I didn't like my list, but she just has to be way too far forward to make her feat worth it.
Positives: -Deathjack with Failsafe is incredibly difficult to remove, and if you don't kill it, it'll eat one or two jacks and regain tons of health. -Deathjack being able to cast Locomotion is enormously useful for extending her focus supply and range. I think he's mandatory. -Flank is a big efficiency increase on Slayer chassis jacks. Morty is a legit threat when flanking as well, though she needs to sit on at least 3 and give focus to models with better attacks. -Locomotion makes your potential threats very high, which helps a bit when jockeying for position.
Negatives -Her large base, tiny feat bubble, and need to spend tons of focus mean she is extremely hard to keep alive. 14/17 is kind of a bad statline with no other defensive tech. She needs at least two Inflictors to even stand a chance, but really she's just at huge risk of dying in melee after feat turn. -Feat is kinda powerful but underwhelming. Most Cryx jacks will need to spend 3 focus to kill a Khador heavy, and that's after the first jack attacks with no feat benefit. If your opponent is smart and keeps their hard targets spaced out, you might not benefit from feat on two or three jacks! The feat could easily be control, even with Stalkers + Locomotion, and it would still not be that impressive IMO. -Locomotion is extremely costly. You need the DJ to make it more efficient, and have him as a second wave, and often it will just be a worse version of Boundless Charge. Of course, any jack you throw far forward may well not even be in feat range, too. -She rarely has the focus to cast her debuff, and it's hard to justify an arc node just for that and her nuke. Also, that's focus not going on jacks, which will often be less efficient unless you get the debuff on quite early. -Salvage is largely pointless on jacks that usually die whenever they get attacked. -No delivery system. Failsafe can get one jack through shooting but the rest will lose their arms as usual.
All in all, she does nothing well. Her feat is worse than having a pair of good debuffs, Locomotion is super inefficient, she can't deliver jacks, she doesn't support troops (aside from Spellpiercer), she has no defensive tech, she has no shooting support, she has no focus efficiency spells or effects, and she can't benefit from caster attachment support very well. You have to work hard to set up and use a feat that puts your caster in serious danger the next turn, and it is easy to foil or mitigate.
Pretty disappointing, and I probably won't buy the model or try her again, not when other casters are so drastically superior.
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Deller
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Post by Deller on Mar 26, 2017 17:16:21 GMT
Honestly I think Mortenebra2 might just be better as an infantry spam caster. Just bring an arc nodes & inflictors to stay safe and load up on infantry. Forget about the FM, Locomotion, & Feat and take advantage of the fact Spell Piercer gives your entire army Blessed & Magic Weapons. Now you have an army of Satyxis/Banes that get to ignore Arcane Shield & friends. Something like:
Mortenebra, Numen of Necrogenesis - WJ: +27 - Nightwretch - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Nightwretch - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Inflictor - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 3 Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 3 Bane Warriors - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Bane Warriors - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7 Carrion Thralls - Leader & 9 Grunts: 10
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 26, 2017 19:14:17 GMT
I asked the design team at adepticon: her feat is designed to be used with the colossals, because she can be much farther back with the huge base 4" reach toeing her command.
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
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Post by kuarnix on Mar 26, 2017 19:56:47 GMT
I asked the design team at adepticon: her feat is designed to be used with the colossals, because she can be much farther back with the huge base 4" reach toeing her command. Ah I see. So, what, the idea is to engage a bunch of models with the battle group (like Helldivers, Shrikes, etc) and have the Kraken pummel them all to death? And the Kraken doesn't die because you keep your own models close at hand so when they die, the Kraken heals....hmm. Doesn't sound like a bad idea but I really don't want to be putting a colossal down every game. It already feels like the best warjack to take in Cryx most of the time, to me.
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npe
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Post by npe on Mar 26, 2017 21:20:42 GMT
I asked the design team at adepticon: her feat is designed to be used with the colossals, because she can be much farther back with the huge base 4" reach toeing her command. Is the idea that the colossal is the only one to get the bonus? So you put a few more jacks up front then attack with the (now flanking) colossal?
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Deller
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Post by Deller on Mar 26, 2017 22:16:30 GMT
I asked the design team at adepticon: her feat is designed to be used with the colossals, because she can be much farther back with the huge base 4" reach toeing her command. That makes 0 sense to me. We have 3 casters who are significantly better at running Colossals in almost every way, Mortenebra1, Skarre1, & Skarre2. Why would I ever want to bring Mortenebra2 to feat on a Kraken when I can Skarre1 feat on one? Fail Safe isn't much better than Death Ward or Spectral Steel and CoS & Spell Piercer aren't much better than Black Spot + Future Sight or Tune Up + Interface. If Colossals were actually suppose to be Mortenebra2's niche she's an utter failure in my mind.
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kuarnix
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Post by kuarnix on Mar 26, 2017 23:34:52 GMT
I suppose between Failsafe and Curse of Shadows it's extremely hard to lock the Kraken down.
Perhaps the goal is just to keep the Kraken fighting forever and win that way, like one of the Aiakos2 builds a player around here is trying to get local Cryx players to try.
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npe
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Post by npe on Mar 27, 2017 2:45:01 GMT
I suppose between Failsafe and Curse of Shadows it's extremely hard to lock the Kraken down. Perhaps the goal is just to keep the Kraken fighting forever and win that way, like one of the Aiakos2 builds a player around here is trying to get local Cryx players to try. I'd love to hear about the Aiakos2 build.
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kuarnix
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Post by kuarnix on Mar 27, 2017 4:51:11 GMT
I suppose between Failsafe and Curse of Shadows it's extremely hard to lock the Kraken down. Perhaps the goal is just to keep the Kraken fighting forever and win that way, like one of the Aiakos2 builds a player around here is trying to get local Cryx players to try. I'd love to hear about the Aiakos2 build. From the man who brought you drake spam, as an off-the-wall idea to try: Aiakos2 -Kraken -Combine -2x Deathripper -2x Scavenger -Stalker -Inflictor Necrotech 2x Warwitch Siren Machine Wraith This was before the spoilers this month, so you could maybe change thing around based on that. As-is, it fits into Infernal Machines, which will give you the Hyper Aggressive benefit. Apparently the idea is just keep the Kraken fighting forever via Aiako's control spells, and use the combat lights mostly to body block and be disruptive to keep things off the Kraken. Haven't had the opportunity to try it, it's been about six weeks since I've gotten a game in unfortunately. You could do a similar thing with Mortenabra2, but she lacks the kind of control elements Aiakos has. Instead you'll punch through defenses better, and the Kraken may fight longer due to raw stats and healing - as long as you can avoid getting one-rounded.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 27, 2017 5:06:09 GMT
which may not be that difficult with +2 arm. I know that the team specifically named the sepulcher to me as the thing to run with her, though from what I know of the faction the kraken's probably a bit better for this job. Locomotion also lets you do some cheeky plays by moving a jack who already activated into range to proc flank, and as has been said there are a few ways to make the load of her spells easier. Maybe try Kraken, DG for spell help, some lights? Maybe a reaper to drag things into flanks while staying in morty2's command?
I know how sucky it is for a cool caster to be outshone, believe me. I played feora3 for a straight month before CID dropped and came out of it questioning why I didn't just play Sevvy1. However, I still think she has serious game and it just comes down to my lack of skill with her, and menoth in general. I feel like Morty2 is in a similar situation (hell, their feats are fairly similar at that) and would not be surprised to see her end up in a similar position in the meta by the time everything shakes out.
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kuarnix
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Post by kuarnix on Mar 27, 2017 6:05:49 GMT
Yeah I think that would be part of the idea with Locomotion, scoot the 'jacks around to get Flank. The Reaper isn't a bad idea either. I assume they mentioned the Sepulcher because of pull. I think part of the deal with the Kraken here is that it's got longer range shooting, so you can be impacting the game from further away, and distance is a big part of defense. But I suppose if they are running Infernal Machines and taking a bunch of mechanithralls too, the Sepulcher might do well.
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Deller
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Post by Deller on Mar 27, 2017 6:17:04 GMT
which may not be that difficult with +2 arm. I know that the team specifically named the sepulcher to me as the thing to run with her, though from what I know of the faction the kraken's probably a bit better for this job. Locomotion also lets you do some cheeky plays by moving a jack who already activated into range to proc flank, and as has been said there are a few ways to make the load of her spells easier. Maybe try Kraken, DG for spell help, some lights? Maybe a reaper to drag things into flanks while staying in morty2's command? I know how sucky it is for a cool caster to be outshone, believe me. I played feora3 for a straight month before CID dropped and came out of it questioning why I didn't just play Sevvy1. However, I still think she has serious game and it just comes down to my lack of skill with her, and menoth in general. I feel like Morty2 is in a similar situation (hell, their feats are fairly similar at that) and would not be surprised to see her end up in a similar position in the meta by the time everything shakes out. I think Mortenebra might have game too, but she has absolutely 0 game in the way she was designed for. The best thing about her is Spell Piercer. I honestly think she's going to end up as an infantry caster, and that as is, all of her Jack support is a giant trap.
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