Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Mar 23, 2017 7:17:24 GMT
Lanz The reason I brought up the Assassins is to not put Saeryn in range of any threats. with Snipe she has respectable range to apply GW, especially with 3 shots, but it's still a risk. Same reason I like to take Martyrs even when I have Zuriel. Slipstream her back? I find Saeryn one of the harder casters to assassinate. Being 12-14" away from 'jacks/beasts that are legitimately useless due to being both crippled and grevious wounded seems pretty useful. I guess you could think of it as a high-risk high-reward play. If you tag the right stuff and pick your opportunity right, you can make sure those 3 'jacks/beasts you tag with deathspurs would have been the only things that might have threatened her anyways, and now they're stuck.
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 23, 2017 13:35:20 GMT
Personally, I've been trying to make Kryssa work in the thene by bringing precision strikes to cripple cortexes/spirits and hex hunters to shadow bind the crippled jacks/beasts. Then they can't shake the bind, and are stuck swinging at a hex hunter or 2, especially if they lack reach to get to the soldiers. My current plan is something like this: War Room Army Legion of Everblight - New neph theme Theme: Children of the Dragon 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight - WB: +31 - Azrael - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 21) - Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Nephilim Soldier - PC: 9 - Nephilim Soldier - PC: 9 - Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 8 Blighted Nyss Warlord - PC: 5 Blighted Nyss Warlord - PC: 5 Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 6 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Blighted Nyss Hex Hunters - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Bayal, Hound of Everblight - PC: 0 Blighted Nyss Swordsmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Blighted Nyss Swordsmen Abbot & Champion - Abbot & Champion: 0 THEME: Children of the Dragon --- GENERATED : 03/23/2017 02:04:24 BUILD ID : 2038.17-03-15 Extremely similar to what I've been playing already to great success. As a skirmishing list you can really force the enemy positioning. The biggest loss for me is not having a Naga. Wraithbane when tearing down Storm Lances is near invaluable. Personal opinion is to drop the bloodseer and pick up Anyssa. But again, she was to hunt Stormlances with a blessed bow. I'd also suggest spell martyrs, especially if you're keeping the bloodseer. Let me know how your games go. I'm very interested in other people actually picking up Kryssa and what they learn.
|
|
|
Post by DanX on Mar 23, 2017 14:30:51 GMT
I like how this is heading but why Kryssia for this theme and knocking out cortexes? Wouldn't Rhyas or Twins be better? conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0uaHbfbfaKaKaLaLeKbbbbbbfUfUbra_b0Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Children of the Dragon (Rhyas 1) Rhyas, Sigil of Everblight [+30] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Protector [10] - Nephilim Protector [10] - Nephilim Soldier [9] - Nephilim Soldier [9] - Zuriel [18] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Warlord [0] Blighted Nyss Warlord [0] Blackfrost Shard [9] Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15] - Blighted Nyss Swordsman Abbot & Champion [0]
|
|
rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
|
Post by rivers on Mar 23, 2017 15:22:29 GMT
They probably work about the same. Kryssa might be a smidge more reliable from a damage standpoint since she has the +3 STR feat, which is much more consistent Rhyas with BFS (army wide, no need to risk missing Kiss(. Rhyas will be a little better at carving out cortexes because of Zuriel.
Personally I like the Kryssa list a little more just because it gives me a reason to be sort of interested in her, but the Rhyas list isnt a bad start. The big selling point, I think, is that with the +3 STR combined with the Hex Hunters shadowbinding/hex bolting everything after your precision strike hits makes the enemy's retaliation a lot less scary. Honestly the same list would work with Rhyas as well with a couple tiny tweaks (I really don't know if two protectors is really worth the extra free solo/CA) and I'd like it a lot more.
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Mar 23, 2017 17:37:11 GMT
The one thing that Kryssa does better is make the hex hunters stealth. Rhyas can cast occultation, but I feel that is better on swords. Also, I'm pretty sure Kryssa's feat is better for Warlords, and crit smiting a shadow bound model can really mess with an opponents focus efficiency.
|
|
rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
|
Post by rivers on Mar 23, 2017 18:47:17 GMT
Kryssa's feat is effectively +6 damage for a Warlord, so it's got a lot of mileage with them.
Warlord does 16 on average to an ARM20 model during her feat; (4d6-6)x2.
Under Rhyas it's 10, with a bonus attack doing 4 on average; (4d6-9)x2 and (3d6-9)x2. So 2 less damage. Kryssa Warlords will scale a little better with excessive armor.
However, if your target has Kiss up (just because we're comparing these two lists specifically), the Warlord will do more under Rhyas as it would be an effective +8 damage (effective +4 per swing). There's also the cleave as well but I'm too lazy to think about it.
This of course assumes you land Kiss and both Warlords charge the same target. Kryssa's feat is far better for the army as a whole, but that shouldn't really come as a surprise. Also, I don't really like Rhyas. So there.
Actually I don't like Kryssa either, but I like that list for her; probably one of the more convincing CotD lists I've seen.
I don't generally factor critical effects into play for overarching thoughts like this but I do agree the times it happens, that particular heavy (or two if you were super lucky) will basically be time walked which is definitely the icing on the cake for that list.
|
|
Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by Whiskie on Mar 23, 2017 18:59:57 GMT
Kryssa with BFS seems the way to go for Children of the Dragon. One of Kryssa's bigger problems is that her damage output drops off really hard once her Feat is spent but with the BFS you have the chance to buff damage every turn. Since Kryssa has Tactical Supremacy the Shard can stay pretty safe after going for a Kiss since they can Repo 3" back. I messed around with the list a little more and got this:
Kryssa - Children of the Dragon - Azrael - 2x Nephilim Bolt Thrower - Nephilim Soldier
Blackfrost Shard Max Raptors Max Swordsmen - Abbot & Champion (free)
2x Nyss Warlords 5x Incubi (free) Shepherd Spell Martyr
No Hex Hunters because I'd rather kill things instead of Shadowbind them. Miss having the AD unit especially with +1 to go first but the tradeoff is the Nephilim Soldier bringing in some extra damage especially on Feat turn and his 9 points bringing the number of free cards up to 2.
Personally I don't think spamming Nephilim too hard is terribly worthwhile. Nephilim aren't really very good on their own since their damage output is pretty bad with only Zuriel and Azrael being the exceptions to this. So I think it's better to aim for roughly the minimum amount of points in beasts needed to get the number of free solos or UA's that you want since the infantry is (or at least should be) the reason you're playing the theme.
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Mar 23, 2017 19:40:50 GMT
Also, I just realized how good hitting a heavy you already crippled with the BT can be. Push it back and then it continues to block charge lanes and has to forfiet an entire turn minimum.
|
|
rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
|
Post by rivers on Mar 23, 2017 23:49:35 GMT
I don't think spamming Nephilim is the key either. The other Kryssa list is 58 points of beasts - and I wouldn't be heartbroken dropping the Bloodseer to be honest - but I like the little fellow and wouldn't mind giving him a chance since this seems like as good a shot he'll ever get since Hex Hunters are okay with her too.
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Mar 24, 2017 0:21:47 GMT
Also, keep in mind that bayal has a spray. With his, the helion's and kryssa's there is a lot on infantry clearing potential
|
|
|
Post by cainuslupus on Mar 24, 2017 5:01:17 GMT
Lanz The reason I brought up the Assassins is to not put Saeryn in range of any threats. with Snipe she has respectable range to apply GW, especially with 3 shots, but it's still a risk. Same reason I like to take Martyrs even when I have Zuriel. Slipstream her back? Not with this theme unfortunatelly. I think lack of Seraph is the most problematic part in this Theme, killing any intent of running Twins with it. You lose all key synergy models other than Protector. Also, keep in mind that bayal has a spray. With his, the helion's and kryssa's there is a lot on infantry clearing potential Hexhunters on their own kill infantry quite well TBH
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Mar 24, 2017 5:14:16 GMT
For sure yeah, but the +2 to hit only furthers that. Bayal has essentially a rat9 spray with quick work with the bloodseer around
|
|
Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by Whiskie on Mar 26, 2017 23:24:37 GMT
So I just wanted to take a moment to do a quick update on how Kryssa in CoD is fairing. I've played 3 games with her over the course of the weekend and the prognosis isn't good.
Game 1 - Kryssa vs The Child
Kryssa - Azrael - 2x Bolt Thrower - Soldier
Blackfrost Shard Max Raptors Max Swordsmen w/ Abbot & Champion
Incubi 2x Warlords Shepherd Spell Martyr
Child - 2x Skin & Moans - 2x Cage Rager - Rattler - 4x Crabbit
Death Knell
Max Dreadrots
Karianna Rose 3x Gremlin Swarms
We played Take & Hold. This was pretty much a nightmare. Once my Feat was gone trying to deal with a Skin & Moans with 3 corpses inside the Death Knell's aura becomes extremely difficult. About half the Swordsmen died to the Child's Trump Arcana and burned to death and never got a decent charge off due to a Crabbit with Discord on it preventing orders. Kryssa died to a Skin & Moans buffed with 3 corpses, Abuse and Enrage.
Game 2 - Kryssa vs Kaelyssa
Kryssa list as above
Kaelyssa - Sylys - 2x Hydra
Max Sentinels w/ UA Max Halberdiers
Elara - Disco
Houseguard Thane Lys Healer 3x Arcanists
Scenario was Incursion. I managed to take this game because it felt like the Ret list was built to fight a bunch of heavies not a combined arms sort of list. I was able to score on the leftmost flag three times with the Blackfrost Shard and eventually Azrael, a Bolt Thrower, Soldier and Kryssa pushed my opponent out of the middle to go to 5.
Game 3 - Kryssa v Child rematch
Both lists are the same.
Scenario was The Pit. Much like before once Kryssa's Feat is over it gets really hard to crack decently high armor. This time I managed to get a charge off by killing the Crabbit with Discord on it with both Bolt Throwers. With Kryssa's Feat the Swordsmen brought down a Skin & Moans and the Rattler and Azrael put a ton of damage into the Death Knell leaving it on 1 box.
This game got down to the wire. Child got an early scenario lead because I derped and didn't contest his flag with the Raptors. It ended with Azrael desperately charging a Crabbit that was protecting Child inside my opponent's flag's contest range. Unfortunately Az wasn't able to get very close to the flag so Child just force hammered him out and dominated to 5.
In conclusion I feel like Kryssa hinges too much on her Feat to get work done and her spell list just isn't good enough to pick up the slack on other turns. While 3 games isn't a ton of playtesting I do feel that it's enough to say that we're probably better off playing a different caster, a different theme or both if the aim is to take down tournaments.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Mar 28, 2017 19:06:21 GMT
What do you guys think of this? I'll admit that I built it mostly as a thought experiment, but I can't shake the hunch that there is a good list in Children of the Dragon, even though the list construction limits really are too restrictive. I think this has some potential.
It's just that when I think about what COD has to work with, Kryssa might be the only one who can really max it out. From there, the list mostly writes itself, but there is a little room to get creative, like using the Beast Mistress to lead an independent kill team. Maybe it's better to double up on Raptors, and having Missy cast Elusive works better with Fyanna 2, but Missy makes it easier to get to 50 points of beasts and she might actually be better against jacks. All that Flanking on top of the feat sounds pretty good. She can transfer damage, right? If she really doesn't work out, you can run another Nephilim instead and wrangle points from there.
The interchangeable nature of about a third of the list could actually be a boon in Masters. Kryssa is still in ADR, so you might have Vanguard Specialists.
The question then is whether this list is getting enough out of the theme to make it worthwhile. I think it just might be. The Abbot and the Incubi total 12 free points. That's exactly the same as most Power of Dhunia lists, and the Abbot is no slouch. Unyielding on the Nephilim might be better with a fourth one, but Azrael is so key that anything that helps his survivability is at least worth a look right there. He could effectively be DEF 14 and ARM 20 in melee against living enemies. Unyielding also increases the Protector's synergy with Kryssa, helping them both stay on a flag for a little longer. Lastly, +1 on the starting roll is a big benefit, especially when the swordsmen can sometimes struggle with unfavorable terrain.
conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0ug3g_aKaLbqcN282929fUfUbaaYa_b0
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Children of the Dragon
(Kryssa 1) Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight [+31]
- Azrael [21]
- Nephilim Protector [10]
- Nephilim Soldier [9]
Annyssa Ryvaal [8]
Beast Mistress [4]
- Harrier [3]
- Shredder [4]
- Shredder [4]
Blighted Nyss Warlord [5]
Blighted Nyss Warlord [5]
Incubus (5) [0]
Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18]
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15]
- Blighted Nyss Swordsman Abbot & Champion [0]
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Mar 28, 2017 19:32:38 GMT
I think I mentioned it before, but I feel like CoTD is waiting on a synergy caster. Or some phenomenal way to use vayl1's incite without reprecussions. Maybe with a good defensive unit and a nephilim swarm vayl1 would run CoTD well?
|
|