marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Sept 9, 2017 15:52:32 GMT
Careful. My daughter was baptized in Toruk's name.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Sept 9, 2017 18:28:33 GMT
I own/play the, currently listed, 3 weakest factions in this poll (as well as others).
Trollbloods: decent in Power of Dhunia with 'beast heavy armies, predictable, infantry largely hamstrung in MK3, AWAITing CID changes to go live to see if infantry 'adjustments' and themes make infantry worth fielding. 'Buff' solos are taxes to MK3 Trollblood units that seemed designed to be SUB-AVERAGE without the solo. I like playing 'beast heavy, but for variety I look to my other factions for diversity of play.
Protectorate: I've been waiting for my Revelator for years...I think it'll open up the ranged game for Protectorate, or so I hope. Double Vessels of Judgement has been entertaining to play. Slow warjacks are counterattackers with very limited speed buffs. Warriors, as in all factions, without inherent out of activation movement tricks (Apparition, Vengeance, etc.) are difficult, survival-wise, to deliver to point of contact.
Minions: Currently playing in Journeyman League, record 14:6. vs. a diverse field (but strangely no Khador this league, 4 Grymkin players though!). My experience may be the telling point for wins though, so I can't comment too much on power level relative to other factions.
Single faction ownership/play in MK3 seems like it would be boring, as the diversity of reasonably competitive choices within a single faction (vs. other competition-minded opponents) seems very limited. Now casual play is a different animal, the trick being how to set a 'play date' for tier-B models. Did this a little bit by enforcing FA:1 in Journeyman League until week 6.
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Post by Trollock on Sept 11, 2017 12:00:25 GMT
Here are some statistics that i put together. it shows the number of top 3 finishes reported on discountgamesinc for each faction the last 6 months. It does NOT use results from team tournaments. Nor does it take in to account the number of players representing each faction. One could argue that WM>H. One could also argue that Cygnar, Khador, Cryx, Legion and CoC has broken themes, and has had that for the last 6 months, while factions like Trolls, Skorne and Minions either do not have broken themes, or they have not been released long enough to have an effect. *throws torch and runs away*
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 11, 2017 12:13:43 GMT
One could also argue that the only reason legion has so many lists there is because of one man.
Nerf JVM please ... thx.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 11, 2017 13:26:27 GMT
Here are some statistics that i put together. it shows the number of top 3 finishes reported on discountgamesinc for each faction the last 6 months. It does NOT use results from team tournaments. Nor does it take in to account the number of players representing each faction. One could argue that WM>H. One could also argue that Cygnar, Khador, Cryx, Legion and CoC has broken themes, and has had that for the last 6 months, while factions like Trolls, Skorne and Minions either do not have broken themes, or they have not been released long enough to have an effect. *throws torch and runs away* I never want ot hear someone complain about my circle being OP ever again haha
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Post by copperflame on Sept 11, 2017 13:34:34 GMT
One could argue 'broken themes' - but the information doesn't show any information around themes. And yes, even then as you stated, there are some conjunctures that one can make while trying to divine the curious subject of human behavior. But there may be some points that this data is detailing that are worth note... and I wonder if the weaker representation of some factions are from lack power due to lack of sales or lack of sales due to lack of power?
And as Sir streetpizza pointed out... a few amazoballs players can really skew some data. I enjoy watching JVM's (or any of the higher preforming LoE players) to try and improve my game (when I can find them on video). How much they impact things... idk.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 11, 2017 13:36:09 GMT
Oracles needs to be corrected and a true beast theme given in place. But then every faction needs a jack/beast theme to leverage. I'm not sitting on Minions, Protectorate, Legion, and Circle. (still trying to move Cryx, but after the local store swaps buildings I can put it up on consignment.)
Legion is crutching on Oracles pretty dam hard. CotD, after adding the characters, has gotten some people's interest, but it's still ridiculously restricted. I don't see anyone really playing Ravens now. Or at least I don't see any discussions about it outside of the random cheer for ambushing grotesques, usually with battlelust from Kallus 2. So if Oracles was more logically designed, I'm pretty sure it'd be near the bottom like the rest of hordes.
Also, JVM could probably win with nothing but a maximum field allowance of shepherds, spawning vessels, and spell martyrs.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 11, 2017 13:39:01 GMT
I never want ot hear someone complain about my circle being OP ever again haha Enrage on wolds OP! Edit: Again I would like to state that the numbers of the top warmachine faction, nearness makes no difference, equates to the entirety of the hordes factions combined. (18 vs 19) These numbers can't just be "coincidence" or down to "aesthetic preference". Another Edits: the 22 legion lists that placed; only 3 were not in Oracles theme. (I won't get into the caster prevalence. that just annoys me)
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Post by Trollock on Sept 11, 2017 13:47:47 GMT
One could argue 'broken themes' - but the information doesn't show any information around themes. And yes, even then as you stated, there are some conjunctures that one can make while trying to divine the curious subject of human behavior. But there may be some points that this data is detailing that are worth note... and I wonder if the weaker representation of some factions are from lack power due to lack of sales or lack of sales due to lack of power? And as Sir streetpizza pointed out... a few amazoballs players can really skew some data. I enjoy watching JVM's (or any of the higher preforming LoE players) to try and improve my game (when I can find them on video). How much they impact things... idk. Even if the information about the themes is not presented in my graph, the lists are published at www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/A quick check through of the Legion lists for example showed that 3 out of the 22 lists were non themed, and every pairing had at least one theme force. Also, JVM was responsible for 4 out of the 11 entries, which is a lot, but he is not the entire faction
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Sept 11, 2017 14:03:07 GMT
Also, the way that Fyanna in Oracles turned out to be "solvable" so to speak is suspicious, but one could perhaps say the same about Doomy 2 in POD.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 11, 2017 14:05:28 GMT
Also, the way that Fyanna in Oracles turned out to be "solvable" so to speak is suspicious, but one could perhaps say the same about Doomy 2 in POD. Can you elaborate? Since she was released and people hyped her up I've complained she's easily countered/mitigated/dealt with.
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 11, 2017 14:08:08 GMT
One could argue 'broken themes' - but the information doesn't show any information around themes. And yes, even then as you stated, there are some conjunctures that one can make while trying to divine the curious subject of human behavior. But there may be some points that this data is detailing that are worth note... and I wonder if the weaker representation of some factions are from lack power due to lack of sales or lack of sales due to lack of power? And as Sir streetpizza pointed out... a few amazoballs players can really skew some data. I enjoy watching JVM's (or any of the higher preforming LoE players) to try and improve my game (when I can find them on video). How much they impact things... idk. Even if the information about the themes is not presented in my graph, the lists are published at www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/A quick check through of the Legion lists for example showed that 3 out of the 22 lists were non themed, and every pairing had at least one theme force. Also, JVM was responsible for 4 out of the 11 entries, which is a lot, but he is not the entire faction You're right Trollock but he his driving innovation and inspiration to play the faction. Sometimes that's enough. Circle used to have Pagani, Moorhouse and Colin doing that for the faction but all of that has dried up and I think we're seeing the results.
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Post by unmitigated on Sept 11, 2017 15:44:32 GMT
Here are some statistics that i put together. it shows the number of top 3 finishes reported on discountgamesinc for each faction the last 6 months. It does NOT use results from team tournaments. Nor does it take in to account the number of players representing each faction. One could argue that WM>H. One could also argue that Cygnar, Khador, Cryx, Legion and CoC has broken themes, and has had that for the last 6 months, while factions like Trolls, Skorne and Minions either do not have broken themes, or they have not been released long enough to have an effect. *throws torch and runs away* Hi Trollock, what is your methodology here? Do you have raw data so I can compare to the spreadsheet I have compiled for this? One could also argue that the only reason legion has so many lists there is because of one man. Nerf JVM please ... thx. Actually as my data showed back in the GenCon reply thread, while JVM is in the top ~15% of players overall, there are a large number of unique players for the sample size in the last 3/6/12 month period.
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Post by copperflame on Sept 11, 2017 17:58:33 GMT
One could argue 'broken themes' - but the information doesn't show any information around themes. And yes, even then as you stated, there are some conjunctures that one can make while trying to divine the curious subject of human behavior. But there may be some points that this data is detailing that are worth note... and I wonder if the weaker representation of some factions are from lack power due to lack of sales or lack of sales due to lack of power? And as Sir streetpizza pointed out... a few amazoballs players can really skew some data. I enjoy watching JVM's (or any of the higher preforming LoE players) to try and improve my game (when I can find them on video). How much they impact things... idk. Even if the information about the themes is not presented in my graph, the lists are published at www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/A quick check through of the Legion lists for example showed that 3 out of the 22 lists were non themed, and every pairing had at least one theme force. Also, JVM was responsible for 4 out of the 11 entries, which is a lot, but he is not the entire faction Great info... now in a perfect world, we would have an equal data set that shows what win % was like without themes. Okay- even that would still be fraught with the usual fallacies but at least that would show some support in 'fix the faction, not the theme' (that I would support).
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 11, 2017 18:23:57 GMT
I wonder if you just took Haley 2 out of the meta for a year where things would settle.
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