|
Post by paradox on Sept 8, 2017 18:37:53 GMT
I've owned double full deliverers and double full zealots + MBs since MKI. Amatures!
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Sept 8, 2017 18:42:37 GMT
I've owned double full deliverers and double full zealots + MBs since MKI. Amatures! WE ARE NOT WORTHY!!!!
|
|
|
Post by streetpizza on Sept 8, 2017 18:56:45 GMT
They're both just too easy to avoid on a set of 1" reach models. Abilities should have counters. They should also be useful and not trivially ignored. Counters for 2" defensive strike, guns, knockdown, stationary, blind, high def, high arm, sacrifical models to draw the attack out. Totally ignoring it because your model has a longer weapon is just derpy levels of easy.
|
|
|
Post by streetpizza on Sept 8, 2017 18:58:31 GMT
Anyone make a list with Double skyhammers yet? I may or may not have bought a second unit...and I am looking at a second unit of zealots too...I may or may not also have a problem... I want to run the following: Testament: Reckoner reveneger X2 Hierophant Deliverer Arms Master Dartan Vilimon min chior Max Skyhammers X2 Holy Zealots Max -UA Idrians Max -UA Wracks X2 Vassal Mechanic Any thoughts? I think they've sucked me in with FM and I'll be trying this one out as part of my intended tournament pairing for the season: (Severius 2) Hierarch Severius [+26] - Blessing of Vengeance [13] - Revelator [37] - Hierophant [0(3)] Ruhpert Carvolo [4] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Deliverer Skyhammers (max) [13] Deliverer Skyhammers (max) [13] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [0(5)] If all of the CID changes hold I'm also considering: Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (CID) (Reznik 2) Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages [+29] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] - Sanctifier [14] - Scourge of Heresy [16] - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan [4] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Deliverer Skyhammers (max) [13] Holy Zealots (max) [12] - Monolith Bearer [3] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [0(5)]
|
|
thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
|
Post by thelat on Sept 8, 2017 23:25:50 GMT
Abilities should have counters. They should also be useful and not trivially ignored. Counters for 2" defensive strike, guns, knockdown, stationary, blind, high def, high arm, sacrifical models to draw the attack out. Totally ignoring it because your model has a longer weapon is just derpy levels of easy. That's literally the point of having a longer weapon. You stab them outside the range of retaliation.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Sept 9, 2017 6:15:08 GMT
They should also be useful and not trivially ignored. Counters for 2" defensive strike, guns, knockdown, stationary, blind, high def, high arm, sacrifical models to draw the attack out. Totally ignoring it because your model has a longer weapon is just derpy levels of easy. That's literally the point of having a longer weapon. You stab them outside the range of retaliation. maybe.....but it's one of the "premium" rules, rules that are best in category and incidentally turn off a lot of situational defenses while, themselves, not sharing the same counters, if there's even a counter to be had. Grievous is more than anti-tough, it's no healing at all. No inhuman resolve, no martyrdom, no self sac, no repairs. True sight means no stealth or clouds.
2 inch melee ignores defensive strike, unyielding, retaliatory strike from shorter ranged models. the models holding the 2 inch melee also generally threaten just as far or farther, often for a similar cost. While these generalizations are, of course, just that, you have to remember that a model never played might as well not exist. Sentinels are excellent, for instance, so every Ret list that can takes them. That's why it feels like they're everywhere.
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Sept 9, 2017 6:32:04 GMT
Sentinals are good, until you realize halbs do .5 less damage on an average charge with minifeat, while being more accurate and having cma if needed . Seriously, halbs spam is a thing and it's kinda terrifying. More on topic, I've been trying to build a harbinger list to beat a local's 72 WG spam under irusk2, cause he really can't avoid the 20" purify. Here's the current iteration, which may swap rhupert for a bokur (who isn't showing up on CC atm) conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O151r243q3k3kjCjC3E7z2S2S2W2W3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (CID) !!! Your army contains CID entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Harbinger 1) The Harbinger of Menoth [+24] - Devout [9] - Templar [15] - Hierophant [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Deliverer Skyhammers (max) [13] Deliverer Skyhammers (max) [13] Deliverer Sunburst Crew [0(5)] Deliverer Sunburst Crew [0(5)] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Sept 9, 2017 8:12:55 GMT
Doesn't Irusk 2 make his whole army blast immune?
|
|
d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
|
Post by d3z on Sept 9, 2017 8:26:48 GMT
He does, but that's why swamp mentioned purification. He can't really avoid it.
|
|
martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
|
Post by martini on Sept 9, 2017 8:29:39 GMT
Harbinger can deal with that using Purificarion.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Sept 9, 2017 8:33:43 GMT
yeah, but that puts harby 6 inches or less from the front of his control, which can easily be within range of all those nasty little gunses.
any word on feora 2?
|
|
|
Post by streetpizza on Sept 9, 2017 15:06:49 GMT
yeah, but that puts harby 6 inches or less from the front of his control, which can easily be within range of all those nasty little gunses. any word on feora 2? With that many deliverers and sunburst I imagine one round of non-blast immunity would be enough to deal with roughly half or more of that army.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Sept 9, 2017 16:41:29 GMT
yeah, but that puts harby 6 inches or less from the front of his control, which can easily be within range of all those nasty little gunses. any word on feora 2? With that many deliverers and sunburst I imagine one round of non-blast immunity would be enough to deal with roughly half or more of that army. This. That's 4 AOE5's at Pow 10 blast and 2 AOE 4's at Pow 8 that light on fire. That is 28" of aoes on the table...
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Sept 9, 2017 17:20:04 GMT
yeah, but that puts harby 6 inches or less from the front of his control, which can easily be within range of all those nasty little gunses. any word on feora 2? With that many deliverers and sunburst I imagine one round of non-blast immunity would be enough to deal with roughly half or more of that army. swap deliverers for 3 repenters and feora burns them all with much less potential for personal danger. she can even feat and get a firetruck ton of focus off any that toughed and take out the rockets/sergeants/joe
|
|
|
Post by Swampmist on Sept 10, 2017 4:26:55 GMT
issue is that 1\3 of them get no KD tough off of the sprays unless you purge, and you still have to make hit rolls. I've watched double TEP fail to out-attrition that list, and assassinating irusk is basically always off the table.
Also, your first purify turn is your feat turn, and the hope is that you can get the wall far enough up where he's forced to come to you. If you can't, you still kill most of the WGI that come into shot range and have 3 shield guards fot those that live, plus you can camp a ton on that turn.
|
|