|
|
Post by chillychinaman on Aug 22, 2017 16:47:13 GMT
How is everyone using our three lessers in the new addition? In Mk2 they all at least brought something nice via their animi, but now I only see the harrier as a points filler.
|
|
|
|
Post by dxman on Aug 22, 2017 17:08:24 GMT
Yeah, the Harrier is a nice cheap transfer target and roadblock for casters that can benefit from its animus, like Lylyth1 and 2, but don't expect it to do any heavy lifting.
As part of the minion/theme CID, I'm also experimenting with a combination of Farrow Brigands, Spawning Vessel, and Beast Mistress under Lylyth1. With access to Parasite, I've found it to be a nice flanking module. The Shredders on the Mistress count for free Oracles solos, but don't add to Lylyth's fury burden.
|
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Aug 22, 2017 18:16:01 GMT
Yeah, the Harrier is a nice cheap transfer target and roadblock for casters that can benefit from its animus, like Lylyth1 and 2, but don't expect it to do any heavy lifting. As part of the minion/theme CID, I'm also experimenting with a combination of Farrow Brigands, Spawning Vessel, and Beast Mistress under Lylyth1. With access to Parasite, I've found it to be a nice flanking module. The Shredders on the Mistress count for free Oracles solos, but don't add to Lylyth's fury burden. Man, Brigands and Parasite go together so well, Prey + Parasite gives you a 5 point damage swing and a +2 to hit, and you can go Hog Wild to shoot and charge in the same activation. I've had three Brigands spike out a jack before. Anyways, I think people really discount the damage Shredders can do with Flank, I often bring one or two to finish off whatever my Angeli or Scythean leaves alive, and they're a nice inexpensive transfer target. Running Lessers in pairs under a Beast Mistress also can be pretty great. One of the guys at the shop runs a module with a Stinger for the ranged attack and Poison attack when he closes to melee, and a Shredder to Flank and take a big chunk out of whatever the Stinger just stung. The big problem with them is that Legion isn't as Fury-efficient as in Mk2, but if you use them as fire-and-forget or finishers, they do their job well. |
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 22, 2017 19:34:02 GMT
I've used them sparingly for the majority of my lists.
Counter blast is nowhere near as useful as the old Lurker, nor is the crit-poison. So I feel bad for stingers right now.
The harrier is 13hp for 3 points. That's pretty much all you get for the investment. They are fast to control zones. Annoyance can make your other models that little bit harder to hit. Dodge is useful on a good handful of our casters. Just don't expect it to hurt much.
Shredders in packs is pure joy. My Thagrosh 2 list runs 5, with a spawning vessel, and his take-damage-spawn-lesser. You can really get value out of them and keep adding back to your army as things fall. The only problem I find is that, due to high point costs elsewhere I just cannot fit them in anywhere they were not already critically meant to be.
|
|
kungpoh
Demo Gamer
Legion Player
Posts: 10 
|
Post by kungpoh on Aug 22, 2017 19:47:52 GMT
Stinger is just not playable. Shredder will see some play with Kryssa+ Beast Mistress, and Harriers with pots and Thag2 for annoying/contesting/jamming or transfer.
|
|
|
|
Post by dxman on Aug 22, 2017 20:59:40 GMT
Anyways, I think people really discount the damage Shredders can do with Flank, I often bring one or two to finish off whatever my Angeli or Scythean leaves alive, and they're a nice inexpensive transfer target. Running Lessers in pairs under a Beast Mistress also can be pretty great. One of the guys at the shop runs a module with a Stinger for the ranged attack and Poison attack when he closes to melee, and a Shredder to Flank and take a big chunk out of whatever the Stinger just stung. Shredders in packs is pure joy. My Thagrosh 2 list runs 5, with a spawning vessel, and his take-damage-spawn-lesser. You can really get value out of them and keep adding back to your army as things fall. The only problem I find is that, due to high point costs elsewhere I just cannot fit them in anywhere they were not already critically meant to be. Yep, that's the game plan. The Shredders can tie up or finish off anything the pigs fail to kill, and the combination of Reposition, Energizer, and Apparition helps make sure everything is in collection range of the pot. I figured with people talking about what they do on Kryssa's feat turn, they can do it every turn under Lylyth. |
|
princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
|
Post by princeraven on Aug 23, 2017 1:40:32 GMT
I run a pack of Shredders with Absylonia 2, they benefit from Alpha Hunter so much.
I have brought out a Harrier from the Spawning Vessel occassionally to act as a fast channeller with Vayl, or just an annoying roadblock model.
I haven't put a Stinger on the table this edition.
|
|
|
|
Post by maximumhippo on Aug 23, 2017 3:08:18 GMT
I like a school of Shredders in some lists. I played 4-6 of them for months in a Kryssa list under a pair of Beast mistresses. Flank, Free charges and +3 STR makes for some Nasty business. haven't played the list recently though.
Harriers are neat because it's a cheap way to get dodge on a caster, Annoyance has come up more than once for me, and as pointed out, it's 13 boxes for your caster.
Stingers are just depressing right now. Too low rat to use the spray, Too low pow + dependence on crit for melee. It's best feature is the 1" melee range.
|
|
|
|
Post by mallios on Aug 23, 2017 16:13:38 GMT
Not having a large collection of models, I run a handful almost every game. I usually try to keep them to one side is the other to tie up a flank, along with a couple shepherds.
In retrospect, they do a lot more than I give them credit for. Either my opponent spends resources to remove them which buys my main army time to single out important models, or he has a nasty group in his backfield.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cheesebeard on Aug 23, 2017 17:19:14 GMT
Lessers took a hit in utility across the board, and with the spawning vessel costing more with less strength and units being losing some steam (for a variety of reasons) and also costing more, lessers have had a hard time in MK3. They're definitely one of the things I would be surprised to not see in the Legion CID.
Shredders are alright this edition for damage if there's another warbeast engaging the target, but I wouldn't count on them for much else. Its animus is pretty terrible – it would be cool if it gave pathfinder to target model and/or regardless of charging. Adelphophagy is a ridiculous rule. The most common way to run them is in packs, but the strongest way to run them is probably with a beast mistress, spawning vessel, front-line unit, and shepherds; not a cheap package, but works in some builds with army-wide buffs (e.g., Kryssa Oracles).
Harriers are more cute than good, but you might want the extra SPD and flight at some point if you're pulling something from a spawning vessel; their combat ability is pretty awful in terms of efficiency. The animus is situationally useful, but planning on your warlock taking attacks (and being missed) isn't really a great strategy, imo – especially when you're spending fury as part of that plan.
Stingers are... not good. While the other lessers got hit hard in a variety of ways, they'll see the table on occasion, whereas stingers are basically extinct this edition. The crit effect is not reliable and won't work against a lot of the field, its base combat stats are mediocre, and its animus is one of the worst in the game. It suffers from Legion rules bloat and edition nerfs – having too many circumstantial rules and no actual role in an army because everything is unreliable or overcosted in general circumstances.
I really miss the MK2 spawning vessel and lesser situation, but #DesignSpace and all that.
|
|
|
|
Post by DanX on Aug 23, 2017 17:45:49 GMT
In defense of stingers.
Everything said above true. I don't think I would ever put one in a list. But I often get them out if the spawning vessel.
1) pot (9"), energiser (2"), charge (9") spray 6 inch, hits Def 14 on 10's. Kills arm 15, 5 boxes on 10's so if you can run a shepherd, you have about 50% chance of killing it.
2) pot, then charge into troupes where you hit 3 with a spray. The 2 you hit with just a spray boost to hit, then the one you charged roll to attack twice. It often kills a couple of guys and leaves a 1" reach beastie in the way.
3) pot, then energiser and aim. Rat6 spray where you have 2 boosts is ok.
The spawning vessel is basically really good. Stingers give it the spray option.
Harriers the flight get places quick option and shredders the damage option.
The big change in MK3 is beast mistresses can use spawning vessels.
Other than that they are about the same points. Pot costs 0,5 old points more. Harrier costs 0.5 old points less.
|
|
|
|
Post by davycannonhound on Aug 24, 2017 0:14:33 GMT
Shredders - Okay point-filler (especially if you don't have many beasts). Surprisingly powerful with the Beast Mistress. Good transfer target.
Harrier - Ehhhhh? If you absolutely want a dodge, and don't have Zuriel.... Transfer target. Bathayne doesn't mind them for run-to engage feat enablers, but wasps fill that role better.
Stinger - Rhyas, Lyllyth1, Lyllyth2, and possibly Thagrosh like it's animus. Then again, if you want the animus, take Teraph and get it on an AD beast to boot. Also, Stinger isn't too bad with the Beast Mistress.
|
|
|
|
Post by zorrobard47 on Aug 25, 2017 6:20:42 GMT
What I'd like to see happen:
1. All Lessers gain aggressive.
2. Beast Mistress replaces her old field Marshall with Extended Control Range.
3. Harrier gains powerful charge and sprint.
4. Stinger replaces crit. Poison with straight poison or Armor piercing (not special attack).
|
|
|
|
Post by chillychinaman on Aug 27, 2017 19:24:54 GMT
What I'd like to see happen: 1. All Lessers gain aggressive. 2. Beast Mistress replaces her old field Marshall with Extended Control Range. 3. Harrier gains powerful charge and sprint. 4. Stinger replaces crit. Poison with straight poison or Armor piercing (not special attack). Straight Poison would be nice, but AP I think would necessitate bringing back the old Suicide Attack rule. Maybe (Crit?) Decapitation as another alternative. Another idea I had would be to convert the lessers into warbeast packs. It gives them pseudo-aggressive and reduced the burden of Fury, be it on the warlock or Mistress. They can either come in pairs at 10boxes or in groups of four for boxes. Then adjust the Mistress with a different field marshal and Flank[Battlegroup]. I will admit, I don't know if Wasps/Shredder packs with Energizer would be OP or not. |
|
|
|
Post by copperflame on Aug 28, 2017 15:11:39 GMT
I wish the Lessors where better suited for their niches.
Harrier's niche is to annoy their targets so I feel it does what it is supposed to do, just needs to be 1pt cheaper - IMO. (lower its offense or health if you have to)
Shredder niche -was- a torpedo but now is more meant to be a 'finisher' (with them gaining Flank instead of Rabid and a rule that will make them each other to dissuade them from running in packs). I don't like this niche. But if that is what the Shredder has to be, then please drop its point cost by 1pt and/or change its animus to .
-- Note, I miss my Shredder packs but I feel that our Wasps is what PP wants our packs to be.
Stinger doesn't have a niche IMO. I would like to see it be a mini-spray threat by increasing its RAT to where the assault would be useful on this thing. I am not opposed to making the tail AP (if it was like the Anglius, then you would have to make a choice between assault spray and melee charge...) but I feel that could be OP.
|
|
