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Post by borderprince on Aug 24, 2017 4:38:47 GMT
Mechanically the MOW never functioned like light Warjacks so I think that's a completely separate issue to deal with. So them having already higher hitting power Im not seeing as a problem. They are some of the slowest and most fragile heavy infantry in the game (Which is what they are. Heavy infantry, and not so much light warjacks) so them also being very hard hitting makes the effort of escorting them up the field worth it. But PP seem to think that MoW should be thought of like light warjacks - that has always been how the MoW concept has been explained (although tine insider from the Mk3 launch did refer to them as heavy infantry). As a certain Rowdy Dragon posted elsewhere: So the light warjack comparison needs to be kept in mind - if fluff is coming first (and I think it generally does for PP), that will set parameters. Wanting something that seems at odds with the background doesn't seem likely to work.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 24, 2017 5:22:45 GMT
But PP seem to think that MoW should be thought of like light warjacks - that has always been how the MoW concept has been explained (although tine insider from the Mk3 launch did refer to them as heavy infantry). I would sure LIKE for them to be like Light Warjacks but that would require a complete redesign of them from the ground up by this point. Making them faster, more versatile, more utility, abilities about boosting. the Shocktroopers where never like Light Warjacks, so I think this may be a "Inspiration in name Only" sorta deal in the same way that Iron Fangs Technically have lower "Armor" then Manhunters (PP generally raises Armor by 1 if the thing has a shield) despite them wearing heavy plate and chain and the Manhunter having an exposed chest. Despite Iron Fangs supposedly supposed to be much higher armor.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 24, 2017 12:49:01 GMT
But PP seem to think that MoW should be thought of like light warjacks - that has always been how the MoW concept has been explained (although tine insider from the Mk3 launch did refer to them as heavy infantry). I would sure LIKE for them to be like Light Warjacks but that would require a complete redesign of them from the ground up by this point. Making them faster, more versatile, more utility, abilities about boosting. A good compromise might be to rework at least some of the MOW solos to fill the void left by light jacks, obviously not in a 1:1 manner, while keeping the infantry units filling the role they are currently filling. Getting rid of desperate pace on the Kovnik and replacing it with a battle plan or something might let him act more this way. Still have the spd 4 to contend with though.
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Aug 24, 2017 13:00:10 GMT
Free Drakhuns
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 24, 2017 13:04:33 GMT
Does anyone remember where the whole "they are our light jacks" thing came from to begin with? I mean Menoth had both light jacks AND medium-based infantry somewhat comparable to our own (and also arc-nodes, btw) since, well, probably a long time before I started playing anyway.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 24, 2017 13:08:40 GMT
Does anyone remember where the whole "they are our light jacks" thing came from to begin with? I mean Menoth had both light jacks AND medium-based infantry somewhat comparable to our own (and also arc-nodes, btw) since, well, probably a long time before I started playing anyway. If I remember correctly (Not that I was playing back then), Shock Troopers were in the original prime book, and were the only medium based infantry in the book (aside from... maybe Boomhowler but he doesn't count because the troll buddies don't have multiple boxes). I am guessing the fluff in that book was the source of it.
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Post by leotherat on Aug 24, 2017 13:21:15 GMT
It seems that PP doesn't always have fluff=rules. Here's a quote from the MK2 forces of Khador book dealing with Bombadiers, "..but the impressive range of their grenade launchers more than compensates for their lack of speed."
So it appears that 10" is an impressive range for a weapon in the IK.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 24, 2017 14:17:44 GMT
It seems that PP doesn't always have fluff=rules. Here's a quote from the MK2 forces of Khador book dealing with Bombadiers, "..but the impressive range of their grenade launchers more than compensates for their lack of speed." So it appears that 10" is an impressive range for a weapon in the IK. Well for POW 14 it _IS_ impressive ;-) the problem is PP's distribution of boxes+ARM. I would love to sit down with the time and create a historgram. There is just not that much around 20-22. Very few high value targets come in that point. Now one idea would be to give thhem INNATE artillerist. Now they could clear out, fairly well, tons of stuff in the ARM+boxes range of 12-15. But you can't afford to drift off and do nothing with just 5 models. Give them innate artillerist and things get interesting (BTW - this is the most interesting thing they could do in theme. Modify the "you get three things: free stuff, an more offensive buff and a more defensive buff) and move to You get three things": Bombers get artillerist; Shocktroopers get Involable resolve, demos get rapid strike. No....that wouldn't be broken says the man thinking about ARM 25 shocks ;-)
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Post by leotherat on Aug 24, 2017 14:29:53 GMT
Gators got more than 3 things for their theme so 3 isn't an ironclad (boo cygnar) rule.
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Post by tapecrawler on Aug 24, 2017 16:00:47 GMT
I just had a terrible thought, what if Mechanics aren't allowed in theme? It seems like we get nice stuff and then as soon as we turn around we get kicked in the head . . . I'm looking Haley2, and Ghost Fleet mainly. We had a good Kharchev list that got beaten with a baseball team of nerf bats when if they'd waited until theme lists were out it would have been corrected with Jaws and SR2017.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 24, 2017 17:29:16 GMT
Does anyone remember where the whole "they are our light jacks" thing came from to begin with? I mean Menoth had both light jacks AND medium-based infantry somewhat comparable to our own (and also arc-nodes, btw) since, well, probably a long time before I started playing anyway. They kinda are, but without shooty big mows they currently can't do what most lights do in other factions. Melee mow spam will be very close to what Amon/Vyros do with their lights.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 24, 2017 17:53:54 GMT
I just had a terrible thought, what if Mechanics aren't allowed in theme? The worst I can see happening is the MOW mechanic becoming a Solo and such only being allowed in theme. Because they already made him a MOW model, they can't just make a "Trencher Style" set of mechanics because we already have them.
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Post by tapecrawler on Aug 24, 2017 18:09:56 GMT
I don't see that happening as long as he still has Mechanic in his description.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Aug 24, 2017 23:45:59 GMT
Has anyone suggested cleave for the demo corps yet? I feel like that could be a good choice for them if Rapid Strike is too much.
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Post by Cryptix on Aug 24, 2017 23:49:29 GMT
Nah, Cleave makes them suffer from Bane Warrior syndrome. They get extra attacks from killing infantry but they have a weapon for killing jacks.
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