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Post by yourmumrang on Aug 20, 2017 19:34:07 GMT
As the title says,
What are you building to face in pairings?
For me I feel like I still need an answer to jack spam and also an answer to infantry.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 23, 2017 6:18:56 GMT
For me it's an answer to heavy shooting (Cygnar), since our expensive warbeasts are made of tissue paper.
Once that's handled, I can honestly pair with whatever I feel like playing at the time.
-und_ed
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Post by snotling on Aug 23, 2017 8:04:55 GMT
And what are our answers to heavy shooting? Stealth doesnt work all the time.
I just won with vayl1 vs sloan in my local league, by shoving three angels 23" up the board turn one and locking her of the scenario
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 23, 2017 8:22:33 GMT
My usual answers to shooting are Fyanna2 Oracles and Lylyth3 (ugh). MKIII has too many easy workarounds for stealth to be a reliable anti-shooting answer.
-und_ed
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Aug 23, 2017 9:18:01 GMT
My normal Cygnar opponent has been playing Caine 3 a lot and I've found the Twins Stealth list can actually do reasonably well into him, at least compared to anything else I've tried to play into Caine 3. The problem is there are other Cygnar lists that the Twins definitely don't want to see.
My list pairings mostly follow a similar pattern of one answering ARM bricks and the other handling gunlines. At the moment it's basically Khador answer paired with a Cygnar answer.
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Post by DanX on Aug 23, 2017 11:27:25 GMT
In a 3 list match up, I want to take a mix of things.
Infantry spam that is strong into other Infantry spam and high jack count. (Kryssa in Ravens is my choice for this at the moment - lots of stealth and ambush) Very high defence stuff (minimum Def 14, beasts can't be knocked down, some stuff is Def17 vs living which is very fun) Kallus2, CoTD, high threat Azuriel and Zuriel, backed up by high damage Swordsmen and Raptors. Can again deal with Infantry spam and Jack heavy count. Doesn't like running into gunlines much I expect, but is pretty fast so may be can run to engage enough. This list has good defence on most stuff.
Saeryn, My list is pretty much an all comers list. It doesn't like lists with a high level of antimagic in them (book of menoth...) but it hits hard with 3 pieces (throne, Zuriel and a Carnivian) and can be reistant to damage with Saeryns feat/banishing ward. Saeryn is personally hard to shoot.
My goal is to against other factions have 2 lists that I would have game into. So in this 3 list matchup I've worked out:
Saeryn is bad into Menoth. Kallus2 is bad into Cygnar. Kryssa is bad into ?
I'm really not very good at this list chicken type kind of game, but nearly every game, my opponent knows I can drop a stealth list with very high def, or a list with low def but Arm 20, or a highly mobile hard hitting force that out threats anything that isn't also cheating. I've had Zuriel charge 20"... which is very unfair.
So its kind of about giving my opponent really hard choices, but running 3 different lists that I'm prepared to play into a variety of matchups.
If I could bring myself to play L2 or A1 instead of Saeryn I could take ADR too which would make list chicken really easy. Being able to add more magic weapons into the different lists after knowing what your opponent plays, or switching out a huge section of stuff gives you at least 2 very different lists.
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Post by cainuslupus on Aug 23, 2017 13:45:56 GMT
And what are our answers to heavy shooting? Stealth doesnt work all the time. I just won with vayl1 vs sloan in my local league, by shoving three angels 23" up the board turn one and locking her of the scenario Fyanna2 and Thags1. You can try Saeryn1 with Thrones if you feel adventurous.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 23, 2017 14:50:22 GMT
I may be missing something. But when it comes to Cygnar I've not had as much trouble with their shooting as I expect I should. I have just weathered the stormwall or chargers (2-3) for the most part. I usually can't reach the later but I'm never in a position I can't deal with the rest of the army. So it's more of a case of I don't build against it, I just play around it.
Now, Kara Sloan. I didn't play against her with Legion; I had wanted to play gators that day and put down Calaban not knowing what the enemy caster would be. Even with that I did not have any sort of a bad time. It was a lot of the light guns (3 chargers and 2 hunters), no stormwall, Defenders, a thing of gun mages and maybe another flavor of jack. But even then I didn't feel some unbearable pressure to run to engage or hide my heavies. He did blatantly shoot the 1 wrastler I had off the table on feat turn. The turtle died a slow painful death over three turns. He also had near nothing for me to get kills to fuel my feat turn. It still just did not feel like i was going to be screwed (though I did joke about it a lot). Now, I did fall quite short of scenario. I think it was 2-4 in SR16 three flags. So I ended up needing an assassination or a contest. I charged Calaban in to get his defender out of the way with life trader and parasite then run the blindwalker to contest and engage Kara. But if I recall correctly Kara only had a hunter and squire left and I still had a handful of shamblers, Calaban with transfers, a near untouched blindwalker, and 3 or 4 slaugtherhousers. So the concede was a pretty fair choice.
Stryker 1 and his snipe stormwall was not able to put down my Kryssa list. I literally never even made attacks on the stormwall cuz arm 27 is totally fair... I have put what I can find as the "meta" Haley 2 heavy metal list on the testing table at home and found that Lylyth 2 can really screws her over.
The only thing right now I fear hasn't been released yet - Haley 2 trencher boat + building.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 23, 2017 15:08:58 GMT
As for what I actually build for...
The pair I've got set to use if a tournament is ever organized near me and i have time...
Abby 2 Oracles - To cover generalists, armor, infantry spam (i think it has a good chance into ghost fleet), colossal anything Lylyth 2 CotD - to cover severe jack spam (Karchev, Hark), control casters (Haley 2)
For a three list tournament I would definitely include my Kryssa list. It's my generalist list and though it doesn't pose any hard questions, it's the best scenario list I've got so far.
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Post by DanX on Aug 23, 2017 15:44:58 GMT
Forever, what is your Kryssa list at the moment?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 23, 2017 20:19:49 GMT
Forever, what is your Kryssa list at the moment? Still the same I wrote my tactics about. I've gone through plenty of successful lists with her but this is just my favorite all-round build. It threats the entire stretch of the board. It can take a unit of stormlances off the table in 1 turn. I can create serious problems for the opponent when you jam with Def 17 scouts that turn into incubi that can still benefit from the -2 the scouts are putting out. Reposition hotswapped, scouts UA, and Anyssa lets me always fine tune my positioning. Kryssa herself can just completely jump from one flag to another with her personal movement shenanigans (More when Golab comes out if he does indeed keep sprint. I can't wait for that.) Kryssa Azrael Neraph Naga Succubus Min Swordman + UA Striders + UA Hellmouth Incubi Anyssa 2x Warlord 2x spell martyr shepherd The Neraph is the most easily substituted model. The hellmouth covers the biggest weakness of this list of being able to hold a zone. If you can get it behind an obstacle you can at least always contest with the respawns.
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Post by DanX on Aug 24, 2017 10:04:56 GMT
Looks good. I'm going to try her in Ravens, with lots of grotesques.
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Post by albertairish on Aug 26, 2017 20:23:28 GMT
I need to have strong lists against:
1. Heavy shooting - Nemo3, eVlad + Rocket Spam, Kaelyssa Double Tick. Must also account for e-leaps.
2. Ghost Fleet and Dark Host. Needs to deal with Incorporeal units and Wraith Engines plus major recursion elements.
3. High ARM, High-Box spam - Marauder spam in Khador, Trollblood beast bricks
4. The mirror match, specifically Fyanna and Lylyth3.
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Post by snotling on Aug 27, 2017 5:17:28 GMT
How on earth does Lylyth2 handle 8+ Khador Jacks?
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 27, 2017 19:25:51 GMT
How on earth does Lylyth2 handle 8+ Khador Jacks? If I had to take a guess, assassinating the caster? Probably using feat+army?
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